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Old 06-15-2002, 06:08 AM   #811
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it mayb nice 2 know wat the pros r setting on their cars,but eventually,i feel tat it is best to have a setting that fits ur driving style...
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Old 06-15-2002, 07:23 AM   #812
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I'm interested to find out the effects of anti dive versus kickup; i posted my experience; could you post yours?
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Old 06-15-2002, 07:33 AM   #813
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i'm not so much into the settings for my RC cars,basically i will trial and error,...

the anti dive and kick up settings,wat is it exactly?...mayb u would jus care to explain to mi?...i've been following the thread closely to learn more,so for now,i'm still learning...

but if u talking abt real cars,then mayb i can offer my thoughts...
for now,i jus need 2 make sure wat is anti-dive and kick-up...
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Old 06-15-2002, 07:42 AM   #814
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Ok antisdive/kickup refers to the angle of the hingepins in relation to the chassis. In most cases I've seen to date, e.g. TA04, Pro3 etc the kick up set to a pre-defined angle (ta04) or variable (Pro3, I was told). This angle is usually positive, and is kickup; the the A-arm's front will be higher than the a-arm's rear, or as in some cars you can set it to 0 degree.

Surikarn's setting sheet shows an oddity - a hingepin setting which has the rear of the a-arm higher than the front. Kenneth Tan told me it was anti squat, and I went to research about it. If you deal with real 1:1 scale cars, then I'm sure you know what it is all about; those are the ppl who thought me car setup anyway.

Here is a website giving a description about kickup/antidive

http://www.geocities.com/radiocontro...geometryf.html

Antisquat btw is the angle of the rear a-arms in relation to the chassis. Do not confuse kickup with castor; in the 414m it seems when you change the kickup, the castor will also be changed since I do not see any other C-hubs in my kit....
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Old 06-15-2002, 08:03 AM   #815
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thanx alvin,...
i read the info on those website and it's a little too technical 4 mi with all the details and not 2 mention confusing...

i jus offer my thoughts here,dun shoot mi if i'm wrong...
when u r braking,if ur car front nose dives in a lot,ur rear traction will be weaker bcos the weight of the car has shifted to the front,so it's easier to break traction at the rear,will be useful for sliding,but the limit is on the car weight,if it's a heavy car,then it wun b easier to break the rear traction,n even u manage to do so,it's a little hard to regain the car composure,as in to let it stablize...

if u maintain a stiff setup throughout,meaning ur car nose wun dive in too much when braking,u r maintaining a drive whereby traction is important to u,gd for slippery surfaces.ur car will be less responsive to turning also,but good on straight...

as to where to place the stocks to create these effects,it's difficult to explain...
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Old 06-16-2002, 08:51 AM   #816
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a few 414M questions:

1. do you guys know the part nos. for the aluminum diff pulleys and the aluminum center pulley (beside the one-way pulley)?

2. what is the compound of the sorex tire included with the kit? is it 28? also, what is the density of the shaped inserts? it seems medium to firm.

3. will the TA04 hinge pins fit?

4. is there a way of adjusting the rear belt tension?

5. for 48p, what size spur do you use?

i apologize if these were asked before. thanks for any info
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Old 06-16-2002, 09:00 AM   #817
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53450 Center One Way Diff
53474 Alu Top Pulley

These are the two I used to replace the stock plastic ones on my 04 and 414m...

A translation of the site indicates 28rs, didn't seem to note the insert type.

I don't think they fit; well they do fit, but they are kinda short so there will be quite alot of movement; and I doubt the decreased contact area is good.... so short answer is no

Rear belt tension.... hmm no idea here, i too would like to see how the tension can be adjusted on the rear belt. It is possible to mount on the rear upper camber link some left over parts and fashion something like those found in the ta04s.

No idea on the 48p stuff.
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Old 06-16-2002, 10:49 AM   #818
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Alvin,
Surikarn raised the lower suspension arm's hinged pins (both front and rear) in order to bring up the roll center of the car closer to the center of gravity of the car. Thus creating more (mechanical) grip/ traction from the suspension. As you know, everyone was having tires overheating problems during the PreWorld and the Worlds in S.Africa. Everyone was struglling to get a consistent n good traction for the whole 5 minutes.
This (higher lower susp. arm hinge pins) would be the most significant changes of the 414MII chasis (in the upcoming World Replica kit). In case you want to try, You can raise the suspension blocks to 3mm (front part) to 2mm (rear part) on the rear suspension and 2mm (front part) and 3mm (rear part) on the front suspension. However, you must dremel the Front's (rear end) suspension block in order to make sure the front belt do not touch the block. If you want to have the same setup as Surikarn (6mm & 4.5mm) and (4mm & 5mm) then you have to modify the front suspension block or get the World Replica kit

Regarding the "odd" angle of FRONT hingepin, it was setup that way (4mm front block & 5mm rear block or 'these days' 5mm & 6mm) in order to get more steering into the corner (less caster angle). He also toed-out the front tires, again an attempt to gain more steering. The WC track layout was highly technical one with so many tight corners!
Hope this will of help...
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Old 06-16-2002, 11:32 AM   #819
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slowhand: Thank you for the reply! I'm curious to the rasing of the roll centres of the car - why they would rather raise the lower suspension arm instead of adjusting the roll centre by adjusting the upper camber link's spacers? Edit: Ok, after some drawings on paper, it does seem to raise the r/c

Regarding the odd hinge pin angle I'm quite surprised. We were thinking along the lines of the ability to brake slightly harder with a dual one way setting when using anti-dive since there is less weight transfer forward - in theory

Ok so if he runs less castor, yes, I believe more steering could be achieved (3 degree or less castor with his settint?!) But will the exit out of the apex be affected? i.e. understeer?

Thanks for the help! BTW, what turn motor is recommended for JITC? I got myself an Orion Core Touring 9x2 specifically for wide open tracks!

Last edited by Alvin; 06-16-2002 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 06-16-2002, 08:37 PM   #820
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Alvin,
Raising the hingepin of the lower arms also means you lower the center of gravity(CG) of the car. The weight is now more to the chasis rather than to the four tires helping to reduce tire wears i.e. less overheating. I was told that EXCEPT Surikarn!! every single (A MAin in the Final3 ) driver was NOT using tire warmers as they were concerned about tires overheating. As we all know, Surikarn passed Masami then B.Baker in fisrt two corners.

As for the less castor angle, in theory ..yes you can expect some understeer going out of the corner, but in practice it's not significant. You should try (I did!)

Regarding type of motors, I believe 8T and 9T will be the most popular. To me, 9Tx2 is more drivable than 8T especially we will design the layout with short straights. I will email you the track layout when it's been finalised some time next week.

Cheers...
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Old 06-16-2002, 09:16 PM   #821
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slowhand: Wow! Never thought of it that way!!!! Lowered CG! Looks like I got to spend some more setting time with my 414m; I'm using it as my race chassis and I don't want to run it more than necessary.

Anyway, thanks alot for the info it's really great to know!
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Old 06-16-2002, 09:55 PM   #822
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alvin,u have the 04r???...
it mayb not b the 414m,but try doing some settings on it to try out the effects of the changes in settings...

of course,the 04r is not as adjustable as the 414m...
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Old 06-16-2002, 10:20 PM   #823
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Yeah well been setting the car for about 9 months, more or less know the ins and outs of a ta04
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Old 06-16-2002, 10:21 PM   #824
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Also, so many things cannot change on the 04s - wheel base, kickup/antidive, antisquat, the thread width is wider on the 414m, the steering gemetry is different, the wheel rates from the spring positions are also very different.
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Old 06-16-2002, 10:56 PM   #825
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ya,i know tat too...
anyway,jus need ur opinion,...
how much would u b willing to pay for a good condition 2nd hand 414m?
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