Tekin RS ESC sensored
07-31-2009, 09:33 AM
#5491
What size spur did you change from and to. This is interesting that changing the spur & pinon sizes but maintain or increase the gearing would cause the motor to run cooler. I've done a fare amount of research via the internet for ways to optimize spur to pinon sizes for a given ratio but have had no luck so far.
Is there a chance your gear mesh was tight for your original spur and after replacing it was loser?
Is there a chance your gear mesh was tight for your original spur and after replacing it was loser?
the mesh was not tight, when i changed spur sizes i also changed gear ratio so it wasn't just the spur size that ran cooler.
07-31-2009, 09:43 AM
#5492
I'm not being lazy but i'm not reading through 365 pages to find an answer that might not be here
I've just got an Tekin RS and want to know what the highest timing boost i can use on a Novak 10.5ss. I think i saw somewhere that the Novak comes from the factory with some advance already set does anyone know if this is true and if so what is it set at. The motor is new and hasn't had the timing changed. I did try a search of the thread on novak but no results were returned.
I've just got an Tekin RS and want to know what the highest timing boost i can use on a Novak 10.5ss. I think i saw somewhere that the Novak comes from the factory with some advance already set does anyone know if this is true and if so what is it set at. The motor is new and hasn't had the timing changed. I did try a search of the thread on novak but no results were returned.if you go to 15 watch your motor temps very closely...
Alex
07-31-2009, 09:47 AM
#5493
Each motor will have a different gearing. However they're much closer now with brushless.
When we all raced with brushed motors(does anyone remember that?) you had to alter your gearing from motor to motor, change it when you cut the comm after so many runs,etc.
BL motors are different but the same. Sometimes you can match gearing but often times when comparing motors we're not comparing apples to apples. Novak to LRP will be different, Tekint to (insert manufacturere here) will differ slightly.
But when you find "THE SPOT" you will be rewarded with one sweet ride....
When we all raced with brushed motors(does anyone remember that?) you had to alter your gearing from motor to motor, change it when you cut the comm after so many runs,etc.
BL motors are different but the same. Sometimes you can match gearing but often times when comparing motors we're not comparing apples to apples. Novak to LRP will be different, Tekint to (insert manufacturere here) will differ slightly.
But when you find "THE SPOT" you will be rewarded with one sweet ride....
07-31-2009, 11:39 AM
#5494
Randy
so the instructions that come with say that the motor is ideal between 160-180* is this correct should we be aiming for this or is it ok to run it at say 140-160*? i know that the newer programs change things so i wasnt sure which is correct.the inst or what. please clarify.
so the instructions that come with say that the motor is ideal between 160-180* is this correct should we be aiming for this or is it ok to run it at say 140-160*? i know that the newer programs change things so i wasnt sure which is correct.the inst or what. please clarify.
07-31-2009, 11:45 AM
#5495
Randy
so the instructions that come with say that the motor is ideal between 160-180* is this correct should we be aiming for this or is it ok to run it at say 140-160*? i know that the newer programs change things so i wasnt sure which is correct.the inst or what. please clarify.
so the instructions that come with say that the motor is ideal between 160-180* is this correct should we be aiming for this or is it ok to run it at say 140-160*? i know that the newer programs change things so i wasnt sure which is correct.the inst or what. please clarify.
160 to 180 is the most you should let your motor regularly get and it is the "ideal" temperature if you are trying to get every last drop of horsepower out of it. There is nothing wrong with a cooler running motor if you have all the power you need.
07-31-2009, 11:47 AM
#5496
Omoser-
Based upon information that Jim has given to our team, there is a difference between Sensor only and Dual (hybid) modes in how they operate.
In Dual Mode the esc uses the sensor and the motor timing set on the "timing ring" to start and then it seamlessly switches into sensorLESS mode which uses the timing set in the esc. In Sensor Mode the entire operation is by the Hall Sensor and timing set on the "timing ring". Dual Mode is more efficient and gives more top end speed. Based upon my testing they will need different gearing and timing.
It should be remembered that the LRP uses dynamic timing advance and is NOT a dual mode esc so your gearing for an LRP will only serve as a baseline for you to start figuring out your gearing with the RS Pro. I think this is why yyhayyim suggested that you were over geared or running too much timing, and your motor temps seem to support that idea. The fact that you were slowing down within the first minute may be a voltage issue being caused from over gearing as this can pull excessive amounts of voltage out of the batteries and heat them up thereby increasing voltage suppression.
Here is something to try:
-Set the timing back to 12% with the motor timed at 0.
-Adjust the gearing to get the motor temperatures into the 130-150 F and the RS Pro showing in the 4-5 temp. LED indicator range after a run.
Do NOT concern yourself about straight line speed at this point. Your goal is to get as close to these temperature ranges as possible with gearing. You can not compare what other people with their LRP's are doing with what you will be doing because the two esc's drive the motor differently.
Once you get these motor and esc ranges then:
-Turn up the timing via the Hot Wire to get the desired straight away speed and fine tune from there with timing and gearing.
-Keep the fan blowing on the solder posts.
For a 6 minute run on a 3.5 - 4.5t BL I would think that you would want to keep the motor in the 150-170 F. range and the RS Pro's temp. LED indicators between 4-6.
BTW, 95% "Brakes" is a little excessive (I don't know if this is push brakes, initial brakes or drag brake). It would be like running full maximum brake setting on the LRP, and I would think it would spin your car out. The "weird" sound that you hear may be from your motor or a belt skipping in your car.
Based upon information that Jim has given to our team, there is a difference between Sensor only and Dual (hybid) modes in how they operate.
In Dual Mode the esc uses the sensor and the motor timing set on the "timing ring" to start and then it seamlessly switches into sensorLESS mode which uses the timing set in the esc. In Sensor Mode the entire operation is by the Hall Sensor and timing set on the "timing ring". Dual Mode is more efficient and gives more top end speed. Based upon my testing they will need different gearing and timing.
It should be remembered that the LRP uses dynamic timing advance and is NOT a dual mode esc so your gearing for an LRP will only serve as a baseline for you to start figuring out your gearing with the RS Pro. I think this is why yyhayyim suggested that you were over geared or running too much timing, and your motor temps seem to support that idea. The fact that you were slowing down within the first minute may be a voltage issue being caused from over gearing as this can pull excessive amounts of voltage out of the batteries and heat them up thereby increasing voltage suppression.
Here is something to try:
-Set the timing back to 12% with the motor timed at 0.
-Adjust the gearing to get the motor temperatures into the 130-150 F and the RS Pro showing in the 4-5 temp. LED indicator range after a run.
Do NOT concern yourself about straight line speed at this point. Your goal is to get as close to these temperature ranges as possible with gearing. You can not compare what other people with their LRP's are doing with what you will be doing because the two esc's drive the motor differently.
Once you get these motor and esc ranges then:
-Turn up the timing via the Hot Wire to get the desired straight away speed and fine tune from there with timing and gearing.
-Keep the fan blowing on the solder posts.
For a 6 minute run on a 3.5 - 4.5t BL I would think that you would want to keep the motor in the 150-170 F. range and the RS Pro's temp. LED indicators between 4-6.
BTW, 95% "Brakes" is a little excessive (I don't know if this is push brakes, initial brakes or drag brake). It would be like running full maximum brake setting on the LRP, and I would think it would spin your car out. The "weird" sound that you hear may be from your motor or a belt skipping in your car.
07-31-2009, 12:06 PM
#5497
Tech Fanatic
Does LRP have a speedo that doesn't need gearing - I want me one of them!! 
Something short is low to the ground, and something tall is high off the ground - simple, eh?!! 
07-31-2009, 12:22 PM
#5498
Randy
so the instructions that come with say that the motor is ideal between 160-180* is this correct should we be aiming for this or is it ok to run it at say 140-160*? i know that the newer programs change things so i wasnt sure which is correct.the inst or what. please clarify.
so the instructions that come with say that the motor is ideal between 160-180* is this correct should we be aiming for this or is it ok to run it at say 140-160*? i know that the newer programs change things so i wasnt sure which is correct.the inst or what. please clarify.
I have seen people that are running,, lets say, 12.3 lap times, come off the track and say hey my motor is only 110 degrees i can gear up, so they gear up still run 12.3's and say, hey now its only 140, i can go up at least one more tooth, and they still run 12.3's and the motor is 155 degrees. what is the point of gearing up to have your motor run at 155 and still turn the say lap times you did at 110 degrees? just my thoughts.
07-31-2009, 01:18 PM
#5500
i'm not randy but while i'm throwing out my opinions i might as well throw out another one.
I have seen people that are running,, lets say, 12.3 lap times, come off the track and say hey my motor is only 110 degrees i can gear up, so they gear up still run 12.3's and say, hey now its only 140, i can go up at least one more tooth, and they still run 12.3's and the motor is 155 degrees. what is the point of gearing up to have your motor run at 155 and still turn the say lap times you did at 110 degrees? just my thoughts.
I have seen people that are running,, lets say, 12.3 lap times, come off the track and say hey my motor is only 110 degrees i can gear up, so they gear up still run 12.3's and say, hey now its only 140, i can go up at least one more tooth, and they still run 12.3's and the motor is 155 degrees. what is the point of gearing up to have your motor run at 155 and still turn the say lap times you did at 110 degrees? just my thoughts.
I totally agree. It's like people have an inferiority complex when they hit their wall. Keep practicing folks, temps will end up where they end up.
07-31-2009, 01:24 PM
#5502
Tech Master
Some say that the motor runs best as it is 180+ F
I run normally a lot cooler and my lap times are the same as when I have a motor at 180F.
The Tekin I found even a bit slower but I think it was only over geared.
The Speedpassion was faster but I didn't made it to the finish in all races because of the hot motor.
Just gear your car with the fastest lap times.
And don't get it over headed.
Personally I love the cooler motor more because I keep more power till the last lap.
I drive 5 cell.
With the 10,5 Lipo I don't have that problem.
I run normally a lot cooler and my lap times are the same as when I have a motor at 180F.
The Tekin I found even a bit slower but I think it was only over geared.
The Speedpassion was faster but I didn't made it to the finish in all races because of the hot motor.
Just gear your car with the fastest lap times.
And don't get it over headed.
Personally I love the cooler motor more because I keep more power till the last lap.
I drive 5 cell.
With the 10,5 Lipo I don't have that problem.
07-31-2009, 02:05 PM
#5503
It really is pretty simple. Gear your car for the best laptime you can get out of it, WITHIN an exceptable temperature rage. If you gear your motor for the best laptime, and you are still 120 lets say, great! You are properly geared. If you gear for the best laptime but are coming off at 190, you are geared too tall, or are running too much timing, you will need to slow down a tad or risk your motor.
Now, gearing for the best laptime means something different to different people on different tracks. If you run on an oval, obviously "Best lap time" will be geared signifigantly taller than somebody who runs on a tiny little twisty carpet track. He would need to gear considerable shorter.
So in short, gear for your fastest lap times, and make sure that you aren't overheating at the end of your run.
Vuala.
Now, gearing for the best laptime means something different to different people on different tracks. If you run on an oval, obviously "Best lap time" will be geared signifigantly taller than somebody who runs on a tiny little twisty carpet track. He would need to gear considerable shorter.
So in short, gear for your fastest lap times, and make sure that you aren't overheating at the end of your run.
Vuala.
Last edited by Cpt.America; 07-31-2009 at 02:40 PM.
07-31-2009, 02:17 PM
#5504
The "best performance" is found when your laptimes are at their lowest!
If this means your motor comes off at 110f, leave it! If it means you're pulling off at 165, leave it.
After about 170 or so you're at the "ceiling" of performance. Much more heat than that and performance drops dramatically.
Gear for laptimes and temps, period.
If this means your motor comes off at 110f, leave it! If it means you're pulling off at 165, leave it.
After about 170 or so you're at the "ceiling" of performance. Much more heat than that and performance drops dramatically.
Gear for laptimes and temps, period.
07-31-2009, 04:28 PM
#5505
