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Old 12-30-2008, 08:50 PM   #871
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It makes the upper arm longer which smooths out the steering a bit. With the longer upper arm there is also less camber gain. This little trick is just a tuning option
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:53 PM   #872
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Might have to give it a try. No issues with the strength of the front end?
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:20 PM   #873
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It will not affect the car on asphalt but will need a brace for carpet. It's a great tuning option.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:39 PM   #874
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I'm guessing too much lateral force(grip) on carpet where on asphalt becuase of the reduced grip it's not an issue. I guess I'll have to wait a few months before I give it a try on asphalt. Thanks again for the info.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:40 AM   #875
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Is it just me, or does the servo saver look like a panda bear face from that angle?

I know... but it's late here.

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Old 12-31-2008, 01:56 AM   #876
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Yes,it does!

Associated RC12R5-panda-pooch.jpg
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:10 AM   #877
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Umm,,, I think he just raised the roll center.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:42 AM   #878
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Originally Posted by mkdut View Post
I'm guessing too much lateral force(grip) on carpet where on asphalt becuase of the reduced grip it's not an issue. I guess I'll have to wait a few months before I give it a try on asphalt. Thanks again for the info.
There was a rear bite issue at the worlds this year. The 1/12th scale cars just could not get enough rear traction. If you go back and look at any of the pictures from the 1/12th worlds, you will see that every car had a Gurney lip on the back of the body in an attempt to get more rear bite. When was the last time you saw anyone running a Gurney lip on a 1/12th car at any big event? One of the ways you can get more rear bite, or balance, is to decrease front bite. By lengthening the upper A arm, you decrease the camber gain through the movement of the suspension making for less aggressive front bite. It does not change the front roll center. Only changing the angle of the upper A arm in relation to the lower A arm or surface of the chassis, changes the roll center.

Also keep in mind that at the worlds, the Associated team was the only team with access to Masami's secret tire foam. It was probably the same foam that Masami used to win the worlds in Florida a few years back. I also saw pictures of other teams from the first days of the worlds that where mounting foam in an attempt to find that elusive rear traction. Have not seen that happen in a long time!! I even saw a picture of Andy Moore mounting foam on wheels.
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:02 AM   #879
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Originally Posted by Crashby View Post
There was a rear bite issue at the worlds this year. The 1/12th scale cars just could not get enough rear traction. If you go back and look at any of the pictures from the 1/12th worlds, you will see that every car had a Gurney lip on the back of the body in an attempt to get more rear bite. When was the last time you saw anyone running a Gurney lip on a 1/12th car at any big event? One of the ways you can get more rear bite, or balance, is to decrease front bite. By lengthening the upper A arm, you decrease the camber gain through the movement of the suspension making for less aggressive front bite. It does not change the front roll center. Only changing the angle of the upper A arm in relation to the lower A arm or surface of the chassis, changes the roll center.

Also keep in mind that at the worlds, the Associated team was the only team with access to Masami's secret tire foam. It was probably the same foam that Masami used to win the worlds in Florida a few years back. I also saw pictures of other teams from the first days of the worlds that where mounting foam in an attempt to find that elusive rear traction. Have not seen that happen in a long time!! I even saw a picture of Andy Moore mounting foam on wheels.
Your an idiot...
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:38 AM   #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashby View Post
There was a rear bite issue at the worlds this year. The 1/12th scale cars just could not get enough rear traction. If you go back and look at any of the pictures from the 1/12th worlds, you will see that every car had a Gurney lip on the back of the body in an attempt to get more rear bite. When was the last time you saw anyone running a Gurney lip on a 1/12th car at any big event? One of the ways you can get more rear bite, or balance, is to decrease front bite. By lengthening the upper A arm, you decrease the camber gain through the movement of the suspension making for less aggressive front bite. It does not change the front roll center. Only changing the angle of the upper A arm in relation to the lower A arm or surface of the chassis, changes the roll center.

Also keep in mind that at the worlds, the Associated team was the only team with access to Masami's secret tire foam. It was probably the same foam that Masami used to win the worlds in Florida a few years back. I also saw pictures of other teams from the first days of the worlds that where mounting foam in an attempt to find that elusive rear traction. Have not seen that happen in a long time!! I even saw a picture of Andy Moore mounting foam on wheels.
on the contrary my friend, on asphalt they are looking for the most total grip. so taking grip away from the front only lowers your corner speed. but if you add rear downforce while maintaining the same front grip that nets you more low speed steering with more total high speed grip...
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:39 AM   #881
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Originally Posted by John St.Amant View Post
Your an idiot...
Who are you to be casting stones....
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:40 AM   #882
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Yeah Crashby...you're an ID10T. You've only been doing this for 20+ years I agree with you though
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:55 AM   #883
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Yeah Crashby...you're an ID10T. You've only been doing this for 20+ years I agree with you though
Not to fret, P2. Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. But sometimes they become one.
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:57 AM   #884
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Originally Posted by rx7ttlm View Post
on the contrary my friend, on asphalt they are looking for the most total grip. so taking grip away from the front only lowers your corner speed. but if you add rear downforce while maintaining the same front grip that nets you more low speed steering with more total high speed grip...
Just sent you a PM.
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Old 12-31-2008, 11:41 AM   #885
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Who are you to be casting stones....
I've been doing this for almost 30 years now and changing the ratio of the length or the upper arm and lower arms including the angle of the upper arm effects the ROLL CENTER. What ever effect you may have described is in fact a ROLL CENTER change. Raising the roll center make the wheel camber gain and lowering it does the opposite. And I AM John St.Amant thank you.
I may resemble your remark, but concidering the source....
remember some values are absolute and usually refered to as positive when it is actually and commonly not refered as a negative value.
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