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Old 06-04-2008, 10:04 AM   #301
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I in no way intend to bash this car or hack this thread. However, I have some concerns about this car. I have one sitting here just waiting to have the factory seal ripped opened. Problem is have been hearing that there are some significant issues with building this car. ( fit and finish problems ) I have not read this entire thread I am just going by what I have heard from some locals.

If someone on hear has good knowledge of this kit, its issues, and the cures, a list of these would be great!
In the first batch of kits sent out there was only one problem that I was aware of and that was the pivot balls being tight in the lower arm. We have since adjusted the mold and are offering free replacements to anyone who got a kit with the them. All kits sent out since the beginning of May now come with the updated arms. Also all spare part arms are of the updated run.
If you have a car with the tight lower balls just call or e-mail our customer service department and they will get you a replacement set.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:05 AM   #302
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When are the spare parts going to make Tower?
We have all the spare parts available at AE.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:11 AM   #303
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Usually the main reason to run the servo flat is becasuse you can move it further forward in the car. Then with the extra room behind the servo it allows you to move the rest of the electronics to better locations on the chassis, mainly toward the center of the car.
It also allows better ackerman angles...
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:13 AM   #304
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Sean i know you have run the t plate version of this car , have you run the spring or kit version. Just wondering what you liked better ?
I have a spring car built but haven't had a chance to run it yet. We don't have many places to run 1/12th, I'm going to try and run this Saturday on our local asphalt track. During the winter I ran the T-plate car and it works very well, similar to our 12L4, but with new adjustments to play with. I had intended to run a new spring car at the carpet nats but couldn't. I did drive Bob's car a little and the spring cars "feel" different, they are much more sensitive to throttle input than the t-bar car. I look forward to getting to run it and learn which I prefer.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:24 AM   #305
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Inspgadgt,

Are you aware that Sean works for Team Associated and helped design the car.
Wasn't aware...i stand corrected.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:48 AM   #306
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You should try this your self to verify but raising the shock will remove some steering on entry and lowering it should give some more steering. It does this because the changing angle affects the shock leverage when it transfers weight to the front.
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I thought it was the other way around...typically you see cars running flat servos to raise front shock mounting location to get back some of the lost steering. I could be wrong though.
The reason I thought it was the other way is because on other cars the standard setup changes, when going from an angled servo, to a flat servo to a stiffer rear spring and raising up the shock mount. If it is the other way around I would have to surmise that the stiffer rear spring alone is too much so the shock is raised to compensate.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:05 PM   #307
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The reason I thought it was the other way is because on other cars the standard setup changes, when going from an angled servo, to a flat servo to a stiffer rear spring and raising up the shock mount. If it is the other way around I would have to surmise that the stiffer rear spring alone is too much so the shock is raised to compensate.
I'm not sure what you mean about changing the servo angle and adjusting the shock angle. In my book they are 2 seperate things, changing the servo position does one thing and changing the shock does another.

When you raise the shock on the chassis mount you are effectively weakening the ability to tranfer weight to the front of the car when you lift throttle. The opposite occurs when you lower the shock on the shock mount as the shock is at a better angle to apply load to the chassis which it then applies to tires.
Shock springs and oil also play a part in this so everything has to work in harmony to achive the desired results. Changing the shock angle also has an effect during on throttle but I find the most noticeable action happens off throttle.
I hope this helps answer your questions.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:54 PM   #308
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Sean C!!!

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Old 06-04-2008, 02:52 PM   #309
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Sean C!!!

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Scuba interested in asphalt 1/12th at BC?
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:11 PM   #310
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I'm not sure what you mean about changing the servo angle and adjusting the shock angle. In my book they are 2 seperate things, changing the servo position does one thing and changing the shock does another.

When you raise the shock on the chassis mount you are effectively weakening the ability to tranfer weight to the front of the car when you lift throttle. The opposite occurs when you lower the shock on the shock mount as the shock is at a better angle to apply load to the chassis which it then applies to tires.
Shock springs and oil also play a part in this so everything has to work in harmony to achive the desired results. Changing the shock angle also has an effect during on throttle but I find the most noticeable action happens off throttle.
I hope this helps answer your questions.
Can you expound on this Sean? What are the affects off throttle that you notice?
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:44 PM   #311
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I wouldn't mind giving it a shot! I need to work on my car a bit though...been a LONG time since I've run it.

10.5?

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Old 06-04-2008, 03:50 PM   #312
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I wouldn't mind giving it a shot! I need to work on my car a bit though...been a LONG time since I've run it.

10.5?
Whatever, I'm going to run a 19t as I don't want to deal with putting in the BL SC. I mainly need to do some test and tune as we have never run this car on asphalt. Trying to help get the guys at the Nats a starting point for set-up.
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:16 PM   #313
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gotcha...well I wont' be able to run this upcoming weekend... got to go help out at the 1/8 race ... but next weekend??
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:16 PM   #314
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Here's my story.

There are 4 drivers at my track that drive speedmerchant Rev 5's in 12th. The Rev 5 is great and I don't realy expect to ever want to get rid of it. We have all run races on the current layout within 3 seconds of each other. Two of these drivers have made the A or B main at a large race and we all can run a clean race for 8 minutes.

Several new-ish drivers have seen the competition we have in 1th and bought 12th scales. Weve had a few guys buy CRC's and one guy bought the R5 because of the price poiint. For reference when these drivers run sedan they are in our rookie class.

The R5 driver was having some difficulty with his car the toehr day and I was at the track just hanging out so I decided to take his car and work on it a bit for him to see if we could improve it.

Now I didn't build the car, but knowing the skill level of the driver taht did, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one based on the fit and finish. The CF was better machined than the Rev 5 IMHO, and in working on it I didn't find anything inherant in the design or quality that I would worry about. The shocks were smooth, the pod moved smoothly, the rear pod alligned the axle perfectly.

It turned out the driver needed a diff rebuild and had left off a shim when doing some maintenance. When I took the car out after getting it working properly again, I was able to consistantly run 11.8's and the car was stable. This was with his tires and batteries and radio. We typicaly run 11.0 fl on race day with our Rev's but I feel confident that with a tire change and a couple other small tweaks, the R5 would be right there.

there were a couple things I found irquesome, however theyn weren't related to fit and finish . . .

Both metric and standard fasterners were used on the car
Not all that BL motor friendly
some componenets are in a dificult to reach positions (like the side shock)

Lemme know if you have any questions Q. See you in two weeks!

Thanks for your input. That's exactly the kind of posting we need more of on RC Tech! No bashing, just Q&A.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:28 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Sean Cochran View Post
I'm not sure what you mean about changing the servo angle and adjusting the shock angle. In my book they are 2 seperate things, changing the servo position does one thing and changing the shock does another.

When you raise the shock on the chassis mount you are effectively weakening the ability to tranfer weight to the front of the car when you lift throttle. The opposite occurs when you lower the shock on the shock mount as the shock is at a better angle to apply load to the chassis which it then applies to tires.
Shock springs and oil also play a part in this so everything has to work in harmony to achive the desired results. Changing the shock angle also has an effect during on throttle but I find the most noticeable action happens off throttle.
I hope this helps answer your questions.
When you change from an angled servo to a flat servo typically you lose steering due to the change in ackerman. To compensate for the loss of steering most setups I have seen go to a stiffer rear spring and raise the front of the shock. So I am trying to figure out why many of the flat servo setups I have seen run the front of the shock higher. Based off of what your saying my guess would be that just changing the spring/oil combination to a stiffer setup over compensates for the loss of steering so I'm thinking in those setups they raise the shock to lessen the effect of the spring change just a bit. Does that sound plausible?

Last edited by InspGadgt; 06-04-2008 at 07:39 PM.
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