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Old 01-19-2011, 10:12 PM   #1471
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Reason for all my posts lately...Been home sick for over a week...Totally bored not wrenching, practicing or racing...

Bill
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:15 PM   #1472
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Nice setup. What is your front camber setting?

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1.5 - 1.75 negative camber..

What do you think would cause the car to traction roll as the traction comes up?
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:31 PM   #1473
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1.5 - 1.75 negative camber..

What do you think would cause the car to traction roll as the traction comes up?

Just reduce that camber down to about negative 0.75 degree and you should find out. I have had mine under 0.50 degrees at the IIC. FYI...Wisdom from Dumper to me at the last IIC when the traction came up.

Also consider installing the #3230 Pro Strut Roll Center Kit ($4.99 retail) to bring the pivot pins up and level out the upper arms. This reduces negative camber change as the front suspension works.

But, you did not give the diameter of your tires; so, that could be at issue too.

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Old 01-19-2011, 11:00 PM   #1474
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Your track at www.crccc.co.nz is a monster layout. I would have trouble just "seeing" the track.

Are you running the 235mm wide configuration with a CanAm body?
Nah, we're running 200mm and i'm rocking the Mulsanne! Thought i'd make it as challenging as possible to drive We run 2 cell 13.5 too, just to make it quick, oh, and we use the cut-thru hair[in 3/4 down the straight. Makes it a challenge. Kick-ass track to drive though, I feel sorry for some of you having to race on a small carpet track in a warehouse....

Funny you should mention it, I am going to talk to the others about running wider cars with the Can-Am's, as we run Nitro on our race days too, so they are a familiar look at the track.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:50 PM   #1475
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Nah, we're running 200mm and i'm rocking the Mulsanne! Thought i'd make it as challenging as possible to drive We run 2 cell 13.5 too, just to make it quick, oh, and we use the cut-thru hair[in 3/4 down the straight. Makes it a challenge. Kick-ass track to drive though, I feel sorry for some of you having to race on a small carpet track in a warehouse....

Funny you should mention it, I am going to talk to the others about running wider cars with the Can-Am's, as we run Nitro on our race days too, so they are a familiar look at the track.
One guy here has the CRC Gen-X 10 2 cell 13.5 235mm CanAm-bodied car for the outdoor track. It is a total rocket and very stable at high speeds. You would probably enjoy it on your mega layout if the others want to make the jump. But that may be dependent on everyone having a 200mm Gen-X 10 to convert.

Many here are converting over to the new Gen-X 10 LE chassis which is for 200mm only. You should be able to get surplus Gen-X 10 Pro chassis cars for 2S racing from the US for cheap. I see nice ones (used for carpet only) being offered for $125 in the classifieds.

The NorCal Hobbies asphalt track is big enough for nitro cars. It is winter here so many of the on-road racers are presently indoors on carpet. Being on the rug is my personal preference because I like the precision of carpet racing for about half of the year. Starts with the IIC in Las Vegas and finishes with our Carpet Nationals in March.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:02 AM   #1476
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Just reduce that camber down to about negative 0.75 degree and you should find out. I have had mine under 0.50 degrees at the IIC. FYI...Wisdom from Dumper to me at the last IIC when the traction came up.

Also consider installing the #3230 Pro Strut Roll Center Kit ($4.99 retail) to bring the pivot pins up and level out the upper arms. This reduces negative camber change as the front suspension works.

But, you did not give the diameter of your tires; so, that could be at issue too.

Bill
How would a heavier or light fluid in the tubes effect the car?
My home track has a couple of very tight corners where the inside rear tire will lift considerably causing a loss of excelleration out of the corner
Front tires are 56mm and the rears are 55.8mm.

Thanks for all nyour advice Bill...

Bob
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:08 AM   #1477
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Tires are way to big. I start mine at 2.06 and go from there. Be sure you rotate your tires left to right after each run and be sure to watch your ride height. Fronts seem to wear much faster than rears.

chuck
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:10 AM   #1478
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One other thing is try to make sure your car is balanced left to right. Hope this helps.

chuck
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:50 AM   #1479
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1.5 - 1.75 negative camber..

What do you think would cause the car to traction roll as the traction comes up?
Camber, camber, and camber is taught in Dumper's Boot Camp. It's a rough environment, but when you emerge with a bruised ego, you will be fast.

Repeating the good advice that's already here; wgt tires should really start no bigger then 54mm on carpet. If it a well seasoned track with lots of grip, you may want to consider 52. You will be shocked how much better that is then 56.

Camber is king and sets the mood of the car. Dumper tossed my camber gauge out and said one of the most important things to me: Don't room with Mario! Wait.... Dial in as much camber as the car needs without tipping over. It doesn't matter what the gauge says. If you insist on using your gauge, use it after you have been on track to dial in camber. Don't get caught up in the fact that it has to be even side to side. You will find the sweet spot between 1/3 to 3/4*. Fine tune the side wall with CA if it's still tippy.

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Old 01-20-2011, 09:47 AM   #1480
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Camber, camber, and camber is taught in Dumper's Boot Camp. It's a rough environment, but when you emerge with a bruised ego, you will be fast.

Repeating the good advice that's already here; wgt tires should really start no bigger then 54mm on carpet. If it a well seasoned track with lots of grip, you may want to consider 52. You will be shocked how much better that is then 56.

Camber is king and sets the mood of the car. Dumper tossed my camber gauge out and said one of the most important things to me: Don't room with Mario! Wait.... Dial in as much camber as the car needs without tipping over. It doesn't matter what the gauge says. If you insist on using your gauge, use it after you have been on track to dial in camber. Don't get caught up in the fact that it has to be even side to side. You will find the sweet spot between 1/3 to 3/4*. Fine tune the side wall with CA if it's still tippy.

Brian
Absolutely! For me, it was tough accepting from Dumper that less camber was the simple solution to the traction rolling issue. I went back out for another qualifier and voila...no tipping. Have passed on this "secret" over and over lately.

And thanks for reminding me that I do sometimes have different camber angles side-to-side.

For club racing on carpet, I start f/r CRC tires at 53mm. For bigger events, they start around 52mm. Fronts wear about twice as fast as rears; so, I alternate between two sets of fronts to get similar wear from front to rear. Depending on tire size, I round the edges pretty well too.

The fact that a full-sized spec tire weighs 50% more than a minimized tire should be noted too. 1S cars love losing that power robbing rotating weight. The effect on punch is dramatic.

Eager to hear more...See you at the C-Nats in a couple months.

Bill
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:55 AM   #1481
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yep, never room with me, unless you like carpet burned knees.

get the car race ready, set it on a flat board. nose facing you. look down the outside of the car from front to rear. look at the plane of the front tire for bottom to top on the outside and compare it to the plane of the rear. obviously the rear tire is at 0 deg camber. make the front match at 0. and go run it. if it pushes, ad in camber evenly 1/4 turn at a time on each side. this is how we set camber.

another thing to check:

take of the front tires, and take your wrench to the pivot ball watch the upper arem as you screw the ball in and out. if the upper arm moves up and down as you are turning the ball, the ball is bent. this will make you car do all sorts of funky things. especially when trying to fine tune camber. "if it is bent, replace, start over and QUIT HITTING SHIT!"*

*quoted from dumper's boot camp.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:11 AM   #1482
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You guys are going to make me cry..........I love you guys.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:23 AM   #1483
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You guys are going to make me cry..........I love you guys.
Looking for an invite to Booty Camp at the Nats. Or did I get that wrong?
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:45 AM   #1484
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Interesting reading about the camber. I'm from an off-road and TC background, so imagining a car with 0 is bizarre! Fantastic advice though. I'm sure i'll need a little more with my softer asphalt set-up, but considering I started at about 2 and was mucking around from there, I may have overdone it!
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:55 AM   #1485
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Really good advice, the bottom line. Don't Hit Shit!
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