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Old 02-04-2016, 08:49 AM   #4036
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I was almost always looking for more steering with my wgt and I figured it was because the rear tires are so very wide. I also noticed that the rears seemed wear much slower than the fronts, which indicated to me that the rears were perhaps wider than necessary. So one day I tried narrowing the rear tires by cutting almost 1/4" off their inner edges. That did seem to free up the car and add some much needed steering. If you've got an older pair of rears laying around, I suggest giving it a try by cutting down their width. Worked a treat for me. To slice off a strip from the inner edge, just mount the tire on a truer and gradually plunge an exacto into the spinning tire/wheel. Just be careful to tilt the blade so that it leans with the direction of spin and not against it.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:12 AM   #4037
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I assume you use strongest additive available.
I and other fast guys in our club let additive sit on tires from 10 to 20 minutes (First time up to 30 minutes - if tires were not used for a week or so). Most of the time 3/4 - sometimes full. Side walls are glued. Contact RC or BSR spec tires. Additive CS-High Grip or Spider Grip - Green.
Are your tires wearing flat?
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Originally Posted by Still Bill View Post
For what kind of surface?

On carpet, it usually varies from 3/4 to 1/2 of the front tire (from the inside to the outside).

On asphalt, it varies between full to 3/4 for most situations I have experienced.

Rear tires are always full coverage for both scenarios.

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Originally Posted by vafactor View Post
I was almost always looking for more steering with my wgt and I figured it was because the rear tires are so very wide. I also noticed that the rears seemed wear much slower than the fronts, which indicated to me that the rears were perhaps wider than necessary. So one day I tried narrowing the rear tires by cutting almost 1/4" off their inner edges. That did seem to free up the car and add some much needed steering. If you've got an older pair of rears laying around, I suggest giving it a try by cutting down their width. Worked a treat for me. To slice off a strip from the inner edge, just mount the tire on a truer and gradually plunge an exacto into the spinning tire/wheel. Just be careful to tilt the blade so that it leans with the direction of spin and not against it.
at our track and man others that we visit only SXT are allowed. I always let my rears sit as long as possible, usually i apply traction compound as soon as i blow it off and throw it on charge. I'll try letting it sit longer on the front i guess i'm scared of traction rolling, which is another question i'll ask a little ways down.

as far as 'cutting almost 1/4" off their inner edges' do you mean truing down the tire at an angle on the inside back in or actually cutting the wheel itself? also that center shock...what kind of oil are you guys running? i know i have 50wt in mine currently.





now to the traction rolling which i forgot about but i've mostly got it out, but it's still lifting the left side. Now i've cranked on the left side spring to help it lay down and i've thickened up my dampening tubes up to 22k...it's helped, but it still wants to lift. now my best run was when i was running 10k w/ the same white springs i currently have on there now and now it wants to lift that left side in a long 'straight-away' sweeper even w/ the cranking of the side springs and thickening of the dampening tubes....any ideas?

just wanted to say even w/ a tweaked chassis on my 12th i dont even have this issue of the inside lifting this much.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:51 AM   #4038
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No he is saying he narrows the rear tires. Back in the old days we had bolink making a 2" and a 1 1/2" rear tire. As for your traction rolling I'd go back to the stock oil in the center and experiment with the different springs. Also What CRC car do you have LE-SE? Try different front and side springs. Start with the stock set-up and change one thing at a time.Tire traction I use either sticky fingers or SXT3.0. I either put it on and wipe it off or leave it on for more traction.This will change for me as we are getting the new CRC carpet( and a subfloor) and it is different than the old.
When you say what CRC car you have I can give you a good starting place for the SE.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:04 AM   #4039
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Originally Posted by phatboislim View Post
anyone have any ideas on how to gain more steering? my WGT is pushing pretty tough. i switched out my caster from what i believe was 10* and now i'm running 0* and it's still pushing. i'm also running 12th scale .45 front spring. i range from 10k-22k on tube lube w/ white side springs. i run 1* camber and 1* toe out on each side. i kind of figured anything anymore aggressive than 1* toe out would be masking another issue that i have with my vehicle. anyone have any suggestions?
Droop can have a big effect on steering so you will want to be sure you are measuring your droop properly and according to the setup directions.

There is a chance that both front grip and traction rolling are stemming from too much rear grip. Back off on your soak time on the rears and leave about a 1mm gap on your side springs to allow the chassis to roll side to side more. What diameter are you running your tires at?
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:35 AM   #4040
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No he is saying he narrows the rear tires. Back in the old days we had bolink making a 2" and a 1 1/2" rear tire. As for your traction rolling I'd go back to the stock oil in the center and experiment with the different springs. Also What CRC car do you have LE-SE? Try different front and side springs. Start with the stock set-up and change one thing at a time.Tire traction I use either sticky fingers or SXT3.0. I either put it on and wipe it off or leave it on for more traction.This will change for me as we are getting the new CRC carpet( and a subfloor) and it is different than the old.
When you say what CRC car you have I can give you a good starting place for the SE.
this is the kit i have the Gen X10 w/ i've converted the chassis to the lipo conversion as the person i bought it from had that w/ the kit as well:

http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...prodID=7718975

if i'm understanding correctly that i need to cut the wheel and tire...wouldnt cutting that much off possibly affect the durability of the wheel?

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Originally Posted by YoDog View Post
Droop can have a big effect on steering so you will want to be sure you are measuring your droop properly and according to the setup directions.

There is a chance that both front grip and traction rolling are stemming from too much rear grip. Back off on your soak time on the rears and leave about a 1mm gap on your side springs to allow the chassis to roll side to side more. What diameter are you running your tires at?
see...droop on a pan car is something i had a hard time understanding how to setup. BUT i have heard that about 1/2 mm droop over the height of the vehicle is pretty normal. say for instance i have 4mm RH....my droop would be 4.5mm, correct?

with the theory of too much rear traction and backing off on the soak time...would it also work in the same way of just letting the front compound sit longer as well, or no?
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Old 02-04-2016, 12:21 PM   #4041
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Originally Posted by phatboislim View Post
this is the kit i have the Gen X10 w/ i've converted the chassis to the lipo conversion as the person i bought it from had that w/ the kit as well:

http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...prodID=7718975

if i'm understanding correctly that i need to cut the wheel and tire...wouldnt cutting that much off possibly affect the durability of the wheel?



see...droop on a pan car is something i had a hard time understanding how to setup. BUT i have heard that about 1/2 mm droop over the height of the vehicle is pretty normal. say for instance i have 4mm RH....my droop would be 4.5mm, correct?

with the theory of too much rear traction and backing off on the soak time...would it also work in the same way of just letting the front compound sit longer as well, or no?
Letting the front soak will help with front traction but with traction roll it's a combination of a few things.

1) too much grip or not enough tire slip.
2) lack of chassis roll to absorb the lateral load.
3) high CoG.
4) tire roll over from soft/tall side wall.

It's all about managing balance and managing weight transfer.
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Old 02-04-2016, 12:27 PM   #4042
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Originally Posted by YoDog View Post
Letting the front soak will help with front traction but with traction roll it's a combination of a few things.

1) too much grip or not enough tire slip.
2) lack of chassis roll to absorb the lateral load.
3) high CoG.
4) tire roll over from soft/tall side wall.

It's all about managing balance and managing weight transfer.
1 sounds like a tight diff...you think my diff is too tight? because i've tried both avenues of side springs and tube lube. but i DO need to regauge my ride height as i have taken for granted, because i usually run pretty low on it to begin with. i know my rear tires are low but i've just replaced my fronts and trued them not too long ago, but i made them the same height as my rears which was at the time 53 i think. but my car does drive it's best when the front tires are low as

i'll check ride height and diff tighteness

you have any input on pod droop? i did look at a vid from the guy on here that's usually in the 12th scale subforums...but what's ideal pod droop? i made an assumption but other input would help?
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Old 02-04-2016, 12:40 PM   #4043
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Just to through my 2 cents...forget the foam tires and get the new CRC rubber tires for pan cars that way you don't have to worry about truing and scare them away with that part.
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:02 PM   #4044
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no thanks
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Old 02-04-2016, 02:07 PM   #4045
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Originally Posted by phatboislim View Post
1 sounds like a tight diff...you think my diff is too tight? because i've tried both avenues of side springs and tube lube. but i DO need to regauge my ride height as i have taken for granted, because i usually run pretty low on it to begin with. i know my rear tires are low but i've just replaced my fronts and trued them not too long ago, but i made them the same height as my rears which was at the time 53 i think. but my car does drive it's best when the front tires are low as

i'll check ride height and diff tighteness

you have any input on pod droop? i did look at a vid from the guy on here that's usually in the 12th scale subforums...but what's ideal pod droop? i made an assumption but other input would help?
I should rephrase #1... I should have said Tire slide. You may be confusing diff slip with what I intended. You want the rear to slide ever so slightly to help the car rotate. You want your diff to be just tight enough not to slip under acceleration. If you punch the throttle from a dead stop, (in a high grip area of your track) you should notice a slight slip of the diff. (just a fraction of a second)
In race trim, you don't want any more than 4mm of side wall on your tires and you should have about -2mm diameter of stagger from front to rear. You will see better performance from worn down tires because the rubber doesn't flex and they slip slightly. allowing the car to "free up". When you have too much rear grip, the car wont turn well and is prone to "grab" the carpet. You can run taller tires on pavement however, due to less grip and more abrasive surface.
Droop:
0.5mm of droop might not be enough for WGT. Given that you don't have any other setup issues, you can add more droop at about 0.5mm at a time to gauge the effects. Don't forget about having about 0.5mm of droop on the front kingpins as well. If you are fully pre-loaded, you will definitely have steering problems.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:36 AM   #4046
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I should rephrase #1... I should have said Tire slide. You may be confusing diff slip with what I intended. You want the rear to slide ever so slightly to help the car rotate. You want your diff to be just tight enough not to slip under acceleration. If you punch the throttle from a dead stop, (in a high grip area of your track) you should notice a slight slip of the diff. (just a fraction of a second)
In race trim, you don't want any more than 4mm of side wall on your tires and you should have about -2mm diameter of stagger from front to rear. You will see better performance from worn down tires because the rubber doesn't flex and they slip slightly. allowing the car to "free up". When you have too much rear grip, the car wont turn well and is prone to "grab" the carpet. You can run taller tires on pavement however, due to less grip and more abrasive surface.
Droop:
0.5mm of droop might not be enough for WGT. Given that you don't have any other setup issues, you can add more droop at about 0.5mm at a time to gauge the effects. Don't forget about having about 0.5mm of droop on the front kingpins as well. If you are fully pre-loaded, you will definitely have steering problems.
OHHHH tire slide...which refers to the reason of gluing the sidewalls and having less traction aka dont let the rears sit so long w/ traction compound That makes a ton of sense. I appreciate the clarification of that man.

Now...with droop on the front springs...i basically have 0 preload on the front springs, so basically i have no droop. I guess I should say this...i have my front king pins setup to where i push up on the king pin via wheel hub there is no movement. But you're saying if i have a tad bit of droop on the front it will help w/ me gaining steering as well?

Last edited by phatboislim; 02-05-2016 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:29 AM   #4047
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OHHHH tire slide...which refers to the reason of gluing the sidewalls and having less traction aka dont let the rears sit so long w/ traction compound That makes a ton of sense. I appreciation the clarification of that man.

Now...with droop on the front springs...i basically have 0 preload on the front springs, so basically i have no droop. I guess I should say this...i have my front king pins setup to where i push up on the king pin via wheel hub there is no movement. But you're saying if i have a tad bit of droop on the front it will help w/ me gaining steering as well?
No. 0 preload on front springs = you have droop (you are running softest .45 12th springs). Chassis with tires, electronics and 1s lipo battery will weight about 830g. Front end will get 35-45% of this weight and it will compress front springs. I don't remember, but 0 preload with .45 will have 1+ mm of droop.

This is an excerpt from 1:12 scale gen x manual:
Quote:
Springs: The Gen X comes with .50mm front springs. Going to a softer front spring will allow the car to roll
more, which will yield more overall steering, but will be most noticeable on corner entry. Using a stiffer spring will
do just the opposite. The car will stay flatter and transition less weight side to side giving you less total steering,
but again most noticeably on corner entry. Preloading the front springs should not be used as a tuning aid (if you
need the front end to be stiffer, use a stiffer spring), but rather just to correct ride height. As an example,
sometimes when using soft front springs, you will notice that the car sits down into the spring (or “sags”), creating
a gap between the spring and lower pivot ball, causing loss of ride height. You do want the car to “set” into the
spring slightly (never bound tight at the top of its travel). But if this gap is more than .010” (or .25mm), you can
preload the spring slightly (either by turning the king pins in farther, or adding a thin shim) to get the ride height
back up.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:56 AM   #4048
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Originally Posted by Liudas View Post
No. 0 preload on front springs = you have droop (you are running softest .45 12th springs). Chassis with tires, electronics and 1s lipo battery will weight about 830g. Front end will get 35-45% of this weight and it will compress front springs. I don't remember, but 0 preload with .45 will have 1+ mm of droop.

This is an excerpt from 1:12 scale gen x manual:
Nice excerpt, Liuda!
Just to clarify... when the car is sitting flat on all 4 wheels, with the battery installed, there should be a slight gap between the bottom of the steering knuckle and the lower pivot ball. This is your droop. If you lift up on the front of the chassis, there should be some downward movement of the knuckle/wheels as you lift. Having this gap/droop will dramatically improve how your car drives. it will be more stable and your steering will improve. As noted, with the .45 springs there should be no problem getting them to compress slightly when the car sits idle on a flat surface (setup board). If there is no gap resent, you will need to back out the kingpins a little to relieve the preload created by the kingpins being screwed in too far, ie, too short.
On the same note, you should never use kingpin length (spring preload) to set ride height. You should only adjust ride height with shims under the front end assembly or by tire diameter. Also, be sure to make both of the kingpins the same length.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:08 AM   #4049
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WHOO HOOO!!!! GREAT INFORMATION FELLAS!!! All of this will be taken into consideration and i will report back with progress or slight issue there of
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Old 02-06-2016, 07:49 AM   #4050
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Originally Posted by Still Bill View Post
Hello Legend,

Your pictures are great and really helped me understand your issues.

1. I do not believe that the Savox unit is one of designated steering servos for the car. The location of its output shaft does not allow for centering of the output shaft in the chassis. I use either the JR3650 or KO PDS951 steering servos in all of my CRC pan cars for perfect alignment. But, I have seen some WGT cars successfully use non-centered servos by making minor adjustment to the steering output of their transmitters to handle the small difference in steering you will have going from left-to-right.

2. Aluminum ball studs won't thread into the carbon fiber; so, CRC uses smaller steel studs. I assume the small side tube ball stud was possible defective; so, contact John Firsching at CRC for a solution. He may be reached at john@teamcrc.com (or call). John is the best!

Glad to see that you are joining the WGT group. Great class!

Bill
Thanks Bill it's not that serious that I need manufacturer replacement for a $ part I just order it with some more stuff/imperial tools from amain so I'am 😎 cool.

Lol JR radios/electronics dose not allow Amain to sell there servos/radios/anything overseas.
Lol don't ask, it's just stupid

Way I see it, JR is pushing them self in to a corner, limiting there market share worldwide, will all the smaller servo company's are growing in popularity
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