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Old 08-14-2013, 03:28 PM   #3346
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Originally Posted by TeamCody View Post
I have a tech question I can't seem to find well with searching.

I am looking at setting up a pair of CRC cars for IIC (13.5 WGT and a 1/12 scale) and have a question around the Long arm setup and what the advantage is:

Short vs Long? &
Short vs Long/short mount - (Long arm mounted in 'stock' short hole)
Hi Cody,

When compared to the regular length upper arms, the long arms have less camber change as the front suspension moves under load in a corner. This option is very helpful when running at a major race to avert traction rolling when the traction comes up. Most IIC tracks have ended up having a solid black line of rubber develop in the groove (driving line) through the turns.

I would start the IIC with the long arms from the very beginning of the week because you will be pretty much tuning for "high traction race conditions" within two days of the start of practice anyway.

At the IIC...please do seek out Brian Wynn (aka "Dumper"), Frank Calandra (himself), Dave Ehrlich and/or Brian Bodine (Mr. Slapmaster) of Team CRC to get the best setup information for the current track conditions. You cannot go wrong with them behind you...

And don't fret over traction rolling. This is usually resolved by using less camber in front. But, not any more than you have to take out. Sometimes the camber in the two sides of my car can end up being about 1/4-3/8 degree different because I tune for right and left turns independently of each other.

Show us your setup.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:31 PM   #3347
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Yo Dog,
No track spray. My tires are 2.35". Ride height is at 6mm because of the expansion joints in the track surface. So unless I buy a new chassis every couple of weeks I've got to keep it up there. I'm getting a full range of front and side springs next week. I'll try your suggestions. Thanks much.

Just a few thoughts.....here in Cancun, Mexico we do not have any hobby shops. I have personally sprayed the track on race days but my club mates won't assist in the cost, they like it but won't part with any peso's. The track set up is nice and clever so we don't need marshalls. We have a transponder scoring system which is real nice too. What's lacking is organization. It's like trying herd cats, if you know what I mean. It could be much more than it is.
Tom,

Try John's BSR tires for softer rear tires.

http://johnsbsrracing.com/foam-tires/10th-scale-foams

And you probably need a somewhat harder front tire to balance things out.

Bill
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:45 PM   #3348
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Thumbs up Foam tire durometers

I got my head up my ass lately. I looked at the BSR duro charts instead of the Jaco charts when choosing my tires so I had Jaco white rears which are 25 duro, and Jaco front pinks which are 30 duro. Not a large diff. Back in the day 20+ years ago we only had yellow, green, and blue. Generally we ran blues on the front and greens on the rears, at least on indoor carpet ovals. So I happen to have one pair of new John's BSR Black foams which are 40-45 duro. So that should help because the hardness differential is more similar to the old blue/green from back in the day. My problem is that after taking 10 years away from this hobby I've forgotten so much. I'm fortunate to have you guys and this forum to help me cure my frequent brain farts.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:34 PM   #3349
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Thumbs up 1/10 pan car tires

Tom, Check out RC4Less as well for 1/10 foam tires. They have a series of foams that have more rubber in the foam.( Read on home page)They work great on asphalt. I have been using Magenta (40) fronts and pink (35) on the rear on my RC10L2. They also have a pink (30). We prep our asphalt surface with sugar water. No need for traction compound!!!!!!

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Old 08-14-2013, 11:10 PM   #3350
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I got my head up my ass lately. I looked at the BSR duro charts instead of the Jaco charts when choosing my tires so I had Jaco white rears which are 25 duro, and Jaco front pinks which are 30 duro. Not a large diff. Back in the day 20+ years ago we only had yellow, green, and blue. Generally we ran blues on the front and greens on the rears, at least on indoor carpet ovals. So I happen to have one pair of new John's BSR Black foams which are 40-45 duro. So that should help because the hardness differential is more similar to the old blue/green from back in the day. My problem is that after taking 10 years away from this hobby I've forgotten so much. I'm fortunate to have you guys and this forum to help me cure my frequent brain farts.
Hey Tom,

I originally looked at the Jaco charts too; and, found no help there.

At least John's BSR and RC4Less gives you some alternatives. And BigBull's suggestion of trying the RC4Less foams with more rubber content may be a winner for your situation.

FYI...We spray root beer on our asphalt track to prep it. Guessing that the basketball players would have something to say about any track prep.

Bill
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:43 PM   #3351
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Default Getting closer

Thanks guys for all the needed info in setting up my CRC LE. I went back to the track to test the latest changes and feel that I'm getting closer. I'll give a link to the video below. I have my goPro mounted to the bill of my baseball cap so that where ever I'm looking will be filmed. Plus my head still gets protection from the sun.
I put the hardest front foams that I had in my tire inventory. They are Johns BSR Blacks.....40-45 shore, then Jaco Whites on the rear......25 shore.
I also reconfigured my electronics. I went to a longitudinal batter placement with the it all the way to the back. The esc, capacitor, and receiver straddle the battery. The booster is in the middle ahead of the battery. I set the chassis on 4 digital scales and balanced it left to right equally w. lead weights. I did this to have a base line for future tweak adjustments as Howard suggested. I then put the chassis on my MIP tweak set and the tweak was equal. I put on another of my 905B bodies. This one without the rearwheel cutouts. Watch the video to see the results. Still some more work to be done. Next test will be with BSR capped rubbers all around and then after that again with the foams trying tweak adjustments.
http://youtu.be/98Epa4fWX3w
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:40 PM   #3352
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Hey Tom,

Thanks for the video. Looks like the soft white rears are fairly close.

Too bad that you have to contend with those painted white lines on the court. Cannot tell if you are spinning out on those or the uneven track surface.

One other change to consider would be to move the rear springs outward (making contact over the rear pivot balls of the side links) and changing over to white rear springs. You have to raise the two Rear Body Mounts on the Standoff Posts (to about 3/4" high) to allow for the height of getting the springs on top of the side links. This is one of the most drivable rear setups I have used for minimal traction conditions.

Pictures of this rear setup were posted about a year ago on the CRC Gen-X 10 LE string. They were posted by SG1; so, he deserves the credit for this setup.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:26 AM   #3353
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Thanks guys for all the needed info in setting up my CRC LE. I went back to the track to test the latest changes and feel that I'm getting closer. I'll give a link to the video below.
It looks great, Tom!

It will be interesting to hear how the sensored motor does.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:56 PM   #3354
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Tom,

Below is a picture of the CRC 1/10th oval car from their website...

http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/images/em...A3-iso-web.jpg

This may give you some more ideas about weight placement if you are just going to be doing oval with your LE.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:49 PM   #3355
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Hi Cody,

When compared to the regular length upper arms, the long arms have less camber change as the front suspension moves under load in a corner. This option is very helpful when running at a major race to avert traction rolling when the traction comes up. Most IIC tracks have ended up having a solid black line of rubber develop in the groove (driving line) through the turns.

I would start the IIC with the long arms from the very beginning of the week because you will be pretty much tuning for "high traction race conditions" within two days of the start of practice anyway.

At the IIC...please do seek out Brian Wynn (aka "Dumper"), Frank Calandra (himself), Dave Ehrlich and/or Brian Bodine (Mr. Slapmaster) of Team CRC to get the best setup information for the current track conditions. You cannot go wrong with them behind you...

And don't fret over traction rolling. This is usually resolved by using less camber in front. But, not any more than you have to take out. Sometimes the camber in the two sides of my car can end up being about 1/4-3/8 degree different because I tune for right and left turns independently of each other.

Show us your setup.

Cheers!

Bill
Thanks for the info. I have torn my 1/10 pan back down to setup for 1S 13.5 WGT, since my setup isn't ideal for that. Locally we were racing boosted 2S 10.5 in our 1/10 class and I had my car set pretty stiff for the added weight and speed. Purple rear spring, 35wt oil, red side springs 50k tubes and 1/12 kingpins with Associated .022 springs. However, I am still on short arm and only have the top brace 1776.

This winter however, we will adopt the traditional WGT rules for 1/10 pan and the class is poised to grow quite a lot.

I am going to setup more along the lines of Bryan's setup from CRC's site.

I do have a question though:

Would you suggest running the servo reversed with P#: 17402
Or run standard servo setup with chassis stiffener P#:1785

Naturally I am going to install a long arm setup for this and keep the #1776 multi brace

Thanks,
Cody
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:52 PM   #3356
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I am in the process of upgrading my CRC Gen10 XL to an LE. Just working on where to place the Booster and Receiver. I'm curious to know just how people swap out their batteries. Also Still Bill, I noticed that you used the CRC 3373 battery position pieces on the side. Did you drill a new countersink hole or just use the existing slot?
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:11 PM   #3357
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Thanks for the info. I have torn my 1/10 pan back down to setup for 1S 13.5 WGT, since my setup isn't ideal for that. Locally we were racing boosted 2S 10.5 in our 1/10 class and I had my car set pretty stiff for the added weight and speed. Purple rear spring, 35wt oil, red side springs 50k tubes and 1/12 kingpins with Associated .022 springs. However, I am still on short arm and only have the top brace 1776.

This winter however, we will adopt the traditional WGT rules for 1/10 pan and the class is poised to grow quite a lot.

I am going to setup more along the lines of Bryan's setup from CRC's site.

I do have a question though:

Would you suggest running the servo reversed with P#: 17402
Or run standard servo setup with chassis stiffener P#:1785

Naturally I am going to install a long arm setup for this and keep the #1776 multi brace

Thanks,
Cody
I continue to run the reversed servo position for my carpet/asphalt setups. However, the last setup I saw on Brian's Snowbirds car did not.

I have not used the #1785 chassis stiffener in quite a while; except to modify one to test the positioning the steering servo in the reversed position. Then CRC came out with their vastly improved versions #17402/#17403 front plates of this concept. Depending on track conditions, I use both of these plates as tuning aids.

Bill
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:34 PM   #3358
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Originally Posted by ScottE1776 View Post
I am in the process of upgrading my CRC Gen10 XL to an LE. Just working on where to place the Booster and Receiver. I'm curious to know just how people swap out their batteries. Also Still Bill, I noticed that you used the CRC 3373 battery position pieces on the side. Did you drill a new countersink hole or just use the existing slot?
I just cut away a small amount of the molded posts on the bottom of the #3373 battery position pieces and glued them to the chassis at the slots. And they function very well.

To remove/install the battery...I completely remove the two front screws and partially loosen the two rear screws that hold down the Top Deck.

Have previously suggested a redesign of the #3373 pieces (into a u-shape) to include side-to-side bracing for the battery. Also, would like to see more battery positioning holes in the chassis plate to fine tune the fore/aft placement of the 1S battery pack.

CRC is so actively progressive; so, don't be surprised that they come to the IIC with a few new experimental parts for your LE. Frank, Dumper and Team CRC members never cease to amaze me with their creativity.

Bill
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:54 PM   #3359
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Thanks Bill. Thought as much but didn't want to assume. :-)
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:19 PM   #3360
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Thanks Bill. Thought as much but didn't want to assume. :-)
I know the feeling...LOL
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