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Old 08-10-2013, 03:19 PM   #3331
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Originally Posted by Still Bill View Post
Hi Tom,

Thanks for showing the pictures. That helps a ton.

From the front end parts, I assume that your car started out as being a Pro chassis and was upgraded to an LE with the updated bottom plate.

Very interesting how you have your 1S battery positioned sideways; so, I assume that you are running on asphalt and looking for more weight transfer from side-to-side by having the pack placed that way.

I can say that I always use an 88T CRC spur; but, the pinion varies quite a bit per the motor/ESC setup used. However, following ROAR WGT rules, my pinion is usually in the low-to-mid 40T range with a Trinity D3 13.5 motor.

The front brace is optional CRC part #1776 Multi Width Front Brace. To this I added an adjustable height Corally touring car body post to prevent the body from flexing downward too much in a frontal impact and cracking at the front wheel well openings. This cheap trick really can really make a body last a lot longer.

I only run Spec Lilac WGT tires as required per the events I run in (being ROAR and major races). If you are running on asphalt, Lilacs may not provide enough traction for your situation. Lilacs are doable when used on cleaned and well prepared asphalt tracks.

I often start on a new carpet track using red center and rear springs and 1/12th scale 50-55# front springs (and king pins); so, that is what you are likely seeing on my carpet car. Usually have something softer on asphalt tracks; so, you would need to describe your track surface to give me a hint.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Bill
Bill,
Thanks so much for the reply. We only have one place to run. Since we have sunshine at least 300 days a year it's all good. The so called track is an outdoor basketball court. It is concrete but painted with a red-ish /orange color. It's fairly smooth.


We sweep the paint dust, small stones, and plant pieces off on race days. We don't spray the track surface. We use rubber tires on our touring cars. I've tried BSR capped tires and presently I'm trying to get the foam tires to work. I run Whites on the rear and pinks on the front. 30 wt. oil in the shock. w/ green spring. On the front CRC white progressives (Kit) and the rears are the red kit springs. My car is not converted from any previous model, it is CRC GenX 10 LE, with the CRC 235mm expansion kit. I run a Peugeot P905 HD body.


My tire diameters are 2.35" all around. I never used a 1S before so the correct gearing is a mystery so far. That is why when I saw your pictures the pinion you use was a surprise. I must be going the wrong way with my thinking. I was trying a 17t 64p pinion and a 93t spur = 1:35" RO and a 5.47:1 ratio. The car is slow. Way off on the gearing. Without spray the cars can enter a corner full throttle but then they must be breathed and then completely straight before adding throttle back in for the next straight or it will spin out. I have found this a frustrating trait to deal with and have had to adapt my driving style to accommodate this tendency. That is why I am trying the cross chassis battery. I've been in this hobby for over 35 years and still learn something new each day. Any and all suggestions are very much appreciated.
By the way I did order the front steer mtg. plate and cross-brace from A Main today, along with a complete assortment of front and rear springs. I should have it all by the 21st. We don't have even 1 hobby shop here so we have to plan way ahead on breakage parts etc.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:37 PM   #3332
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Originally Posted by Cancun Tom View Post
My tire diameters are 2.35" all around. I never used a 1S before so the correct gearing is a mystery so far. That is why when I saw your pictures the pinion you use was a surprise. I must be going the wrong way with my thinking. I was trying a 17t 64p pinion and a 93t spur = 1:35" RO and a 5.47:1 ratio. The car is slow. Way off on the gearing.
Hi Tom,

It sounds like the 3.5 ratio you mentioned earlier (and the 3.73 we calculated before that) will be much closer to what you need.

The car looks good, and the track location is perfect!
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:35 PM   #3333
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Originally Posted by Cancun Tom View Post

Bill,
Thanks so much for the reply. We only have one place to run. Since we have sunshine at least 300 days a year it's all good. The so called track is an outdoor basketball court. It is concrete but painted with a red-ish /orange color. It's fairly smooth.


We sweep the paint dust, small stones, and plant pieces off on race days. We don't spray the track surface. We use rubber tires on our touring cars. I've tried BSR capped tires and presently I'm trying to get the foam tires to work. I run Whites on the rear and pinks on the front. 30 wt. oil in the shock. w/ green spring. On the front CRC white progressives (Kit) and the rears are the red kit springs. My car is not converted from any previous model, it is CRC GenX 10 LE, with the CRC 235mm expansion kit. I run a Peugeot P905 HD body.


My tire diameters are 2.35" all around. I never used a 1S before so the correct gearing is a mystery so far. That is why when I saw your pictures the pinion you use was a surprise. I must be going the wrong way with my thinking. I was trying a 17t 64p pinion and a 93t spur = 1:35" RO and a 5.47:1 ratio. The car is slow. Way off on the gearing. Without spray the cars can enter a corner full throttle but then they must be breathed and then completely straight before adding throttle back in for the next straight or it will spin out. I have found this a frustrating trait to deal with and have had to adapt my driving style to accommodate this tendency. That is why I am trying the cross chassis battery. I've been in this hobby for over 35 years and still learn something new each day. Any and all suggestions are very much appreciated.
By the way I did order the front steer mtg. plate and cross-brace from A Main today, along with a complete assortment of front and rear springs. I should have it all by the 21st. We don't have even 1 hobby shop here so we have to plan way ahead on breakage parts etc.
Ah ha! I completely overlooked that possibility of it being a 235mm car. Understood.

Your tire sizes sound fine for a 235mm car.

So, what motor and ESC setup are you running?

That knee brace you got there gets me! I am currently at home recovering from knee replacement surgery two weeks ago.

Bill...The Gimp!
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:43 PM   #3334
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Smile Gearing

Thanks Howard and Still Bill,
My ratio works out to be a 88t spur w/ 48 Pinion. I've got both but I will have to use a motor spacer to move the motor back so I can push it forward to get the larger pinion on. That will give me a 4.063" roll out.
The motor/esc combo are by hobby wing. It is a low power unsensored we run to keep things affordable.

The motor is 3000 rpm per v x 4.2v=12600 no load rpm.
so if peak HP is half no load rpm= 6300
6300 rpm/60 sec.=105 revs per sec.
Avg length of racing line is (99ft/6.2 secs.avg. lap-time)=15.9 ft./sec.
(15.9 ft per sec / 105rps)= 0.151 ft. per rev. converted to inches=
(0.151 ft. x 12)= 1.817" FDR
Tire is 2.35" dia. x 3.14= 7.383"circum.
7.383 circum./1.817 FDR=4.063 R.O.
88t spur / 48t pinion= 1.833 FDR ( close enough!)


Still Bill.....I wish you a speedy and complete recovery.
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Last edited by Cancun Tom; 08-29-2013 at 10:10 AM. Reason: math
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:08 AM   #3335
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Hi, Attached photos of my Genx-10LE which I run at my local track. The class
we run is 200mm Le Mans Bodies with 7.5 turn brushed motor and NIMH batteries with any Speed Control and any tire. This was done to keep the
cost down. However they are pretty fast and a blast to drive. Regards
Norman
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CRC 1/10 Pan Car-imgp0003.jpg   CRC 1/10 Pan Car-imgp0004.jpg  
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:00 PM   #3336
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Default Normans' CRC X LE10

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Hi, Attached photos of my Genx-10LE which I run at my local track. The class
we run is 200mm Le Mans Bodies with 7.5 turn brushed motor and NIMH batteries with any Speed Control and any tire. This was done to keep the
cost down. However they are pretty fast and a blast to drive. Regards
Norman
Norman, Your LeMans body is beautiful. I love the paint work and the placement of the stickers. Especialy like the bit of carbon fiber at the "A" pillars and the cutouts on the inside of the front tires. Is is a Toyota? Also where did you source it from? My guess would be Tamiya? Great job!
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:23 PM   #3337
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Norman, Your LeMans body is beautiful. I love the paint work and the placement of the stickers. Especialy like the bit of carbon fiber at the "A" pillars and the cutouts on the inside of the front tires. Is is a Toyota? Also where did you source it from? My guess would be Tamiya? Great job!
Hi. Yes got the body from Tamiya it is a Toyota TS-020. Regards
Norman
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:15 PM   #3338
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Questions?? CRC set up for flat concrete oval???

Do you have any experience with the CRC GEN X 10 LE on concrete?

I am trying to stop a tendency for the car to swap ends unexpectedly. At the test the chassis was set up as follows: It had white rears, pink fronts, by Jaco, new but trued by me on my machine. Green center-shock spring w/ kit 30wt. oil, progressive white front springs, red progressive side springs w/ damper-tubes 30K lube. The rears were dressed w/ 90 Coppertone. Fronts clean but no dressing. Ride height is 6mm on main chassis and 7mm on the rear pod. Droop is about 1mm. Tweak is neutral. Camber and toe = 0. Caster is per kit. I'm using a 1S 5800mAh Zippy battery mounted all the way back in the center. Spur= 88, pinion= 48, and a HobbyWing EZ Run 35A-SL ESC / 13t 3000 KV motor combo.
The track was dust free because of the monsoon rain storms we've been having the last few days. Track temp was approx. 90 F. Here is a short GoPro video up to you tube of Sunday's test. Click http://youtu.be/Eo3oMpGpPu0 to view it. Any Suggestions???
Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #3339
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Originally Posted by Cancun Tom View Post
Do you have any experience with the CRC GEN X 10 LE on concrete?

I am trying to stop a tendency for the car to swap ends unexpectedly. At the test the chassis was set up as follows: It had white rears, pink fronts, by Jaco, new but trued by me on my machine. Green center-shock spring w/ kit 30wt. oil, progressive white front springs, red progressive side springs w/ damper-tubes 30K lube. The rears were dressed w/ 90 Coppertone. Fronts clean but no dressing. Ride height is 6mm on main chassis and 7mm on the rear pod. Droop is about 1mm. Tweak is neutral. Camber and toe = 0. Caster is per kit. I'm using a 1S 5800mAh Zippy battery mounted all the way back in the center. Spur= 88, pinion= 48, and a HobbyWing EZ Run 35A-SL ESC / 13t 3000 KV motor combo.
The track was dust free because of the monsoon rain storms we've been having the last few days. Track temp was approx. 90 F. Here is a short GoPro video up to you tube of Sunday's test. Click http://youtu.be/Eo3oMpGpPu0 to view it. Any Suggestions???
Thanks in advance.
Hi Tom, are you spraying the surface? Foam tires don't seem to work too well on an untreated surface. What diameter are you truing your tires to? It sounds like your ride height is pretty high. You may also be a bit too stiff for an outdoor track. Go with the white side springs as this should let the chassis roll a bit more.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:47 PM   #3340
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Angry Track spray

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Hi Tom, are you spraying the surface? Foam tires don't seem to work too well on an untreated surface. What diameter are you truing your tires to? It sounds like your ride height is pretty high. You may also be a bit too stiff for an outdoor track. Go with the white side springs as this should let the chassis roll a bit more.
Yo Dog,
No track spray. My tires are 2.35". Ride height is at 6mm because of the expansion joints in the track surface. So unless I buy a new chassis every couple of weeks I've got to keep it up there. I'm getting a full range of front and side springs next week. I'll try your suggestions. Thanks much.

Just a few thoughts.....here in Cancun, Mexico we do not have any hobby shops. I have personally sprayed the track on race days but my club mates won't assist in the cost, they like it but won't part with any peso's. The track set up is nice and clever so we don't need marshals. We have a transponder scoring system which is real nice too. What's lacking is organization. It's like trying to herd cats, if you know what I mean. It could be much more than it is.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:57 PM   #3341
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Yo Dog,
No track spray. My tires are 2.35". Ride height is at 6mm because of the expansion joints in the track surface. So unless I buy a new chassis every couple of weeks I've got to keep it up there. I'm getting a full range of front and side springs next week. I'll try your suggestions. Thanks much.

Just a few thoughts.....here in Cancun, Mexico we do not have any hobby shops. I have personally sprayed the track on race days but my club mates won't assist in the cost, they like it but won't part with any peso's. The track set up is nice and clever so we don't need marshalls. We have a transponder scoring system which is real nice too. What's lacking is organization. It's like trying herd cats, if you know what I mean. It could be much more than it is.
Tom, wish I was retired in Cancun so I could help out...lol
Still got some years to go.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:01 PM   #3342
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Tom's posted picture about shows the clay-colored basketball court he is running his LE using the 235 mm wide chassis configuration with a prototype body and a relatively low powered motor/ESC. Because it is multi-purpose, no track surface prep is allowed. A huge challenge...traction-wise!

Anyone have any 1/10th scale pan car experience on concrete surfaces?

Bill
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #3343
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Originally Posted by Cancun Tom View Post
Do you have any experience with the CRC GEN X 10 LE on concrete?

I am trying to stop a tendency for the car to swap ends unexpectedly. At the test the chassis was set up as follows: It had white rears, pink fronts, by Jaco, new but trued by me on my machine. Green center-shock spring w/ kit 30wt. oil, progressive white front springs, red progressive side springs w/ damper-tubes 30K lube. The rears were dressed w/ 90 Coppertone. Fronts clean but no dressing. Ride height is 6mm on main chassis and 7mm on the rear pod. Droop is about 1mm. Tweak is neutral. Camber and toe = 0. Caster is per kit. I'm using a 1S 5800mAh Zippy battery mounted all the way back in the center. Spur= 88, pinion= 48, and a HobbyWing EZ Run 35A-SL ESC / 13t 3000 KV motor combo.
The track was dust free because of the monsoon rain storms we've been having the last few days. Track temp was approx. 90 F. Here is a short GoPro video up to you tube of Sunday's test. Click http://youtu.be/Eo3oMpGpPu0 to view it. Any Suggestions???
Thanks in advance.
Hi Tom,

It looks like you are getting close!

Pink fronts are too soft. Try something harder. I'd start with pink rears (the whites will probably wear too fast) and lilac fronts, then go one step softer on the front if necessary. I usually run at least one step harder compound on the front versus the rear on asphalt. Using a harder front tire, and doping the fronts, will keep the handling more consistent as the dope wears off and the tires get dirty. Doping just the rears will lead to oversteer after a few laps (as you are experiencing).

Despite what it looks like, the track is definitely dusty. Your first spin happened after you ran onto the white portion of the concrete, where it was probably worse than on the line.

Since you are running oval, don't be afraid to run the car with some cross-weight (tweak). Setting the tweak screws so there is some extra force on the inside rear tire will promote understeer and help keep the inside tire from losing traction (a.k.a. "diffing out") when accelerating out of a corner. This adjustment is quick and (best of all!) free, so try it first to get a feel of how it affects the car. Put a couple of small holes in the body so you can make the adjustment without removing it.

After getting the car as good as you can, it may still be necessary to run less than 100% throttle to make it drivable.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:28 PM   #3344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still Bill View Post
Tom's posted picture about shows the clay-colored basketball court he is running his LE using the 235 mm wide chassis configuration with a prototype body and a relatively low powered motor/ESC. Because it is multi-purpose, no track surface prep is allowed. A huge challenge...traction-wise!

Anyone have any 1/10th scale pan car experience on concrete surfaces?

Bill
Tire sauce a possibility? My thinking lies in the tire compound. Am I rite in thinking the 'White' compound tire is an exotic? I would probably go to Pink rear tires due to the higher content of natural rubber.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:37 PM   #3345
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I have a tech question I can't seem to find well with searching.

I am looking at setting up a pair of CRC cars for IIC (13.5 WGT and a 1/12 scale) and have a question around the Long arm setup and what the advantage is:

Short vs Long? &
Short vs Long/short mount - (Long arm mounted in 'stock' short hole)
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