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Old 03-28-2011, 06:01 PM   #14776
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Just got the new M06 Stabilizer Set
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:46 PM   #14777
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We also use the 13T/3000kv systems for our mini class, on a short indoor carpet track (25m x 14m), and have found the performance to be perfect for the mini's. However, we also allow any tyres, and and bodyshell, so the cars are better able to cope with the extra speed compared to a silver can, and perform very well.

Here is a video (low quality, sorry) of a recent mini A-final at our club, (Worcester Model Car Club in the UK). 5 cars in the race, 4x M05 (using low profile TC style bodyshells with rear wings), and 1 M06 with a BMW bodyshell. I think all the cars were running the Sweep tyres, usually 25's all round, but we sometimes find that 33's on the front also work well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igNiPVLZONQ
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:13 PM   #14778
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Actually, I'm glad you're back to racing and active on this thread again. Even if you don't make sense sometimes.
Thanks, Bob. I'm happy to be back. I'm getting the hang of the one eye, no depth perception thing and I'm gaining ground very quickly. Learning how to drive when you have no braking is also coming along. In case you're wondering what that means, my finger won't move to the braking position anymore. I suspect I'll end up a mid to low end A mainer. I'm sitting at a high B main spot right now, which is better than the C and D I've been averaging so far.

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We also use the 13T/3000kv systems for our mini class...
The 13T systems are fantastic and were the first thing we tested. For a good driver, they are acceptable and fun. However, our club has racers ranging from first timers to very experienced all running together. Our logic behind choosing a 17.5T solution is to help the newer drivers out with a more consistent, controllable system and to make driving and setup the most important thing among the more seasoned racers. It should tighten things up and also prevent turn 1 from being a melee at the start of each race.

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We also allow any tyres, and and bodyshell,
Same here. We are considering a spec tire rule, but don't know how it's going to go yet. As for bodies, pretty much anything goes, as long as it fits the mini chassis properly. Rovers, Miatas, Chevy pick-ups, Alfas...they're all here.
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:41 PM   #14779
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post

The 13T systems are fantastic and were the first thing we tested. For a good driver, they are acceptable and fun. However, our club has racers ranging from first timers to very experienced all running together. Our logic behind choosing a 17.5T solution is to help the newer drivers out with a more consistent, controllable system and to make driving and setup the most important thing among the more seasoned racers. It should tighten things up and also prevent turn 1 from being a melee at the start of each race.

You can turn down the timing and it'll run like a 17.5T... and slower, but it introduces another variable.
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:56 PM   #14780
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You can turn down the timing and it'll run like a 17.5T... and slower, but it introduces another variable.
We ran a HW 13T at 0 timing and it was still faster than a decent silver can. A "regular" out of the box silver can (averaged over the past 3 years or so) will run about 2200-2400kv. With no timing the 13T hits 3000kv with loads more torque.

A 17.5 motor will average around 2200kv. Watching one run last weekend against a field of regular motors really drove the point home that this is what we need to look at for our races. Remember when driving a mini didn't require the kind of reflexes required to drive a modified/boosted 12th scale? That's what we're after.

Jim
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:27 PM   #14781
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
We ran a HW 13T at 0 timing and it was still faster than a decent silver can. A "regular" out of the box silver can (averaged over the past 3 years or so) will run about 2200-2400kv. With no timing the 13T hits 3000kv with loads more torque.

A 17.5 motor will average around 2200kv. Watching one run last weekend against a field of regular motors really drove the point home that this is what we need to look at for our races. Remember when driving a mini didn't require the kind of reflexes required to drive a modified/boosted 12th scale? That's what we're after.

Jim
Hmmm I ran my HW with default 15 timing side by side with a Novak Havok 17.5T and it was on par. Maybe I have a dud HW . Oh well nevermind then. Good luck with your choices. Makes sure the motor endbell timing is the same, preferably 0 for everyone.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:30 PM   #14782
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Yup. Going for a locked end bell and a ROAR legal ESC that visually indicates that timing is at zero. Should be testing one last system this week or next.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:40 PM   #14783
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I might chime in here with some more info as to why we went with the H/W system.
For a start its important to note that we wanted a Black Can equivalent, not a silver can. And that's a significant difference in itself.
And we did try a number of 17.5's etc as well.

But the real killer for us, was price. In Aus, trying to buy a 17.5 and ESC (to say nothing of the problem of 'boosted' ESC's that now exist but didnt then) for under $250+ wasn't possible.
The H/W system was around $120 at the time. It was a no-brainer for us. And easily the best decision we EVER made.

However I do agree that it isnt comparable to a Silver Can in any way. If H/W made a lower kv comparable system (say 2200 or something) then it would be brilliant.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:08 PM   #14784
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Here is a pic of my new Cooper body.

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Old 03-30-2011, 12:42 AM   #14785
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
Same here. We are considering a spec tire rule, but don't know how it's going to go yet. As for bodies, pretty much anything goes, as long as it fits the mini chassis properly. Rovers, Miatas, Chevy pick-ups, Alfas...they're all here.
In NZ the mini class rules are locked down really tight, only a few Tamiya tyres allowed & no hop-ups except bearings & sway bars. car must be assembled as per the manual, incl motor & esc.

This means the absolute beginners car will be damn near the same as an experts car.
Also makes it attractive to run as a 2nd car type on race days. Just plonk it on the track. Dont worry about any setup issues or tweeking for performance as almost nothing is allowed
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:20 AM   #14786
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Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
In NZ the mini class rules are locked down really tight, only a few Tamiya tyres allowed & no hop-ups except bearings & sway bars. car must be assembled as per the manual, incl motor & esc.

This means the absolute beginners car will be damn near the same as an experts car.
Also makes it attractive to run as a 2nd car type on race days. Just plonk it on the track. Dont worry about any setup issues or tweeking for performance as almost nothing is allowed

that sucks
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:21 AM   #14787
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Decision's made: We're staying open on tires. Going to a controlled motor and sticking with stock gearing. We've always allowed the cars to be as blinged out as anyone would like, because it really doesn't make a bit of difference anyway. The only things that really matter, other than the above mentioned items, are bearings, CVDs, diff and a good setup.

Build it for efficiency and toughness, that's the best you can do.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:44 AM   #14788
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that sucks
I think that's the best way to keep it fun and affordable (where's that thread about reviving on-road?).

One thing I have noticed recently was that in our higher level (not club) competitions there are a lot of people that push their gear to the maximum, regardless of smoking up a motor and an ESC for every qualifier/race. I think that is beyond reason and am not sure it's fun any more. Most of these people are hobby shop owners, sponsored by hobby shops or work in hobby shops.

I have seen one competitor go through two speedies and three motors in one weekend, all because he wanted to squeeze the very last bit of power out of them. That's just shy of 1000$ a weekend. At this price, don't think there would be too many people who want to race. I think in the future there will have to be rules to limit the number of motors/speedies you're allowed per competition.
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:39 AM   #14789
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Hi Guys,
Quick question on shocks (re: M-05):
On the M-Chassis TRF shocks (Tamiya part #54000), do you guys use the black o-ring spacer under the piston on the shaft (seems to overly limit the travel) , and do you use the urethane bushing above the diaphragm (not even sure what it's purpose is)?
Thanks in advance (-:
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:26 AM   #14790
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Originally Posted by SoCalGuy View Post
Hi Guys,
Quick question on shocks (re: M-05):
On the M-Chassis TRF shocks (Tamiya part #54000), do you guys use the black o-ring spacer under the piston on the shaft (seems to overly limit the travel) , and do you use the urethane bushing above the diaphragm (not even sure what it's purpose is)?
Thanks in advance (-:
SoCal
The urethane bushing sits on top of the bladder. It's there to force oil pressure back down when the piston head is at full compression. It's what causes a lot of the rebound when you use it.
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