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Old 03-27-2011, 04:52 PM   #14761
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Granpa,

Nice to see the M05 is finally showing you some love.

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Old 03-27-2011, 05:07 PM   #14762
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Odd that you would think that the Hobbywing system is slower than the Silvercan. It is the equivalent to the Blackcan in performance. If memory seves me correctly, the reason the Australians went to that system was not to run something "slower", but to achieve more uniform motor performance. The Sport Tuned motors were known for the variance in performance from motor. The other reason was to have a motor that was more reliable. Being quite "aged", perhaps Tony or Calvin or some of the other down under racers might enlighten us. I'd hate to rely on my information retention capabilities.

We TCS racers have another problem entirely and that is to find motors motors slow enough to meet the stringent rpm limits that have been imposed. Hate to disagree with you, Jim, but bodies do make a difference. And that is even at the slower speeds we are running. You're right about the Robinson pinion. They also have the advantage of not "stripping" the set screw like the Tamiya flourine coated pinions do and are about half the price.
He didnt specify that they were running the Hobbywing combo, and he also states that it will be a 2200kv motor, Not the 3000kv motor used in Australia.
So speeds would be much better with only a 2200.
One of the main reasons that 3000kv was chosen in Oz, was that the lower KV motors were not available at the time.

IMO for most racers 3000kv is too much horsepower, a 2200kv would be interesting to see.
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Old 03-27-2011, 06:58 PM   #14763
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Hey Granpa, we tried the Hobbywing 13t. WAY too fast for us. We've been testing 17.5t systems and they're right in line with a "real" silver cans. Don't forget, we're running shorter tracks o. High grip carpet.

As for bodies, if one is running at "normal" speeds, the body means almost nothing. Recent winners have been running Miatas, 240ZX, pick up trucks, Alfas...it comes down to driving and set up for us.
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:04 PM   #14764
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
Hey Granpa, we tried the Hobbywing 13t. WAY too fast for us. We've been testing 17.5t systems and they're right in line with a "real" silver cans. Don't forget, we're running shorter tracks o. High grip carpet.

As for bodies, if one is running at "normal" speeds, the body means almost nothing. Recent winners have been running Miatas, 240ZX, pick up trucks, Alfas...it comes down to driving and set up for us.


Any particular brand/model of motor and ESC being ran ?
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:18 PM   #14765
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I have a setup question.

I'm running an M03-L on high bite ozite.
- Yellow front springs 80 wt oil
- Red rear springs 80 wt oil.
- 60d tires front/rear
- Tamiya hard foam inserts
- Tamiya A or Tamiya S fronts
- Tamiya S rears.
- A-arms front/rear are almost level (have a little down travel when off the ground)
- Cooper S body
- Silvercan

The problem I'm having is that on very high bite corners, the car wants to traction roll. I'm wondering if I'm missing something obvious on the setup. I though about going to blue springs in the front, but thought that might increase the traction roll and take away steering.

Any advice from high bite ozite Mini racers?
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:25 PM   #14766
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Default fixing traction roll

I know monkey will chime in aswell...but a little CA glue on the outside edge of just the front tires will do the trick. Just make sure not to put it on the tread only on the sidewall. It will wear off over time and need to be reapplied.
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:49 PM   #14767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
I have a setup question.

I'm running an M03-L on high bite ozite.
- Yellow front springs 80 wt oil
- Red rear springs 80 wt oil.
- 60d tires front/rear
- Tamiya hard foam inserts
- Tamiya A or Tamiya S fronts
- Tamiya S rears.
- A-arms front/rear are almost level (have a little down travel when off the ground)
- Cooper S body
- Silvercan

The problem I'm having is that on very high bite corners, the car wants to traction roll. I'm wondering if I'm missing something obvious on the setup. I though about going to blue springs in the front, but thought that might increase the traction roll and take away steering.

Any advice from high bite ozite Mini racers?
Weird my m05 the way I have it set up I can go full speed into the hairpin at the end of the stright and she just hugs the corrner and doesnt roll at all, car is dialed.
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:34 PM   #14768
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
Hey Granpa, we tried the Hobbywing 13t. WAY too fast for us. We've been testing 17.5t systems and they're right in line with a "real" silver cans. Don't forget, we're running shorter tracks o. High grip carpet.

As for bodies, if one is running at "normal" speeds, the body means almost nothing. Recent winners have been running Miatas, 240ZX, pick up trucks, Alfas...it comes down to driving and set up for us.
Sorry Jim, but brushless and it's language is not in my vocabulary, so was unaware of the fact that you had adopted a slower system than the Australian system.

I have a feeling that our differing opinions on the effect bodies have is due to the different surfaces we run on. You race on carpet and the track I race on is outdoor asphalt with low to, at best, medium grip. I also believe from previous conversations, your track is considerably smaller. True, that in all racing, it does come down to set up and driving whether it's at your track or mine. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your viewpoint, I have the additional tool of being able change the body to assist me in getting the type of handling I want.

Having never run at your track, I cannot say with any degree of certainty, that bodies will have any effect at all there. Also, I haven't a clue as to what you may consider to be normal speeds. I do, with absolute certainty, know that the Silvercans we are required to run now are the same as the stock ones you are familiar with. Neither can you say, having never run at the Tamiya track, that different bodies do not affect the handling of a Mini.
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:40 PM   #14769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
Any particular brand/model of motor and ESC being ran ?
We've narrowed it down to the Speed Passion 17.5 Club Spec system and an as yet un-named Orca 17.5 system. They both run with an "average" silver can. We had a driver running one yesterday and while the speed off the corners seemed better, it topped out just like an average 540J. I'm not comparing to the current batch of mutant "CS" 540J motors though. Those are simply an aberration...I hope.

Bob, I hope I didn't come across as rude in my earlier post. When you're typing with one finger on your iPhone, looking through one eye and trying to maintain a conversation with your mom at the same time, it gets tricky.

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I know monkey will chime in as well...
Yeah, it's true. I never shut up.
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:19 PM   #14770
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Yeah, it's true. I never shut up.[/QUOTE]

I meant that you would back me up with the CA trick silly As we run on the highest bite office carpet around

Can't wait for the new brushless as my silvercans I think were made from empty beer cans
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:45 AM   #14771
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The BL system came into Australian mini racing when we found that there was such a large variation in performance from the Tamiya black motor and the lack of longievity of the motor. We did some testing of a few different BL systems and the one to have the same speed as the black can was the 3000Kv/13T 380 size motor.

With that in mind after some serious testing by mini drivers in Vic, NSW and QLD it was decided these would be the accepted. As Bradd has said the 2200Kv system was not available at the time and I believe would be slower than a Tamiya black can. We are restricted to using the 20Tooth pinion and the standard internal gears.

We also tested 17.5 boosted but found the car slower than the black can so this was rejected, which with todays ESC was a good decision. All of the 13T BL systems are HW or offshoots,Venom or Yeah and all motors have to have the 13T etched into the can to be legal.

For us the 13T motor was comparable to having a fast Tamiya black can that stays consistent all day without the worry of burning/dropping brushes etc. I have been running the motor in my mini for two years and to me seems as fast as it was, however I may try a new one to see if the lap times change. The best part minimal maintenance and everyone can have the same/similar topend. Then all comes back to drivingf and car setup.

I am not trying to beat up brushed against brushless just stating we all run to different rules. For us the larger 3000Kv motor choice offered comparable performance to the black motor and it sounds like the 2200Kv offers comparable performance to a good silver can.

At the end of the day we all run what is required to be legal and competitive. I also know what works on my tracks here in Australia setup wise may not work for someone else in the USA or UK. However trying different things or bodies etc might just get you that tenth of a second you are chasing.

Happy Rc racing, remember to have fun and race for the sheep stations some other time.

Later,

Calvin.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:51 AM   #14772
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BTW,

Someone asked for a report on the Oil Gear Diff V2 that I was testing. So far it is working very well. I ran it on carpet and TQ'd and then had DNF,(broken servo) and the second final finished second.

I am using 500 000 wt silicon oil and will not say more until I have ran it for a few more events. This is in my MO5S which I only run occassionally. One good thing with the oil gear diff car is it pulls dead straight all of the time. There is no left or right pull under haevy acceleration.

My MO5L which is my favourite car is using a TAO3 ball diff. This is the car I use most of the time.

Anyway will provide more feedback when I have completed more testing and diff proves to be resilient under race conditions.

Later,

Calvin.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:28 AM   #14773
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Robinson Racing makes very nice hardened pinions for Tamiya. They refer to them as "48M" or "48 metric". I believe the "proper" term is .6 module. The Tamiya hardened pinions are really good as well.

Jim
Kawada also make a metric pinion for the M-chassis (& others)
Also very good pinions.
-just another option when shopping
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:18 AM   #14774
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HPI also makes .6 pinions.

http://www.hpiracing.com/kitoptions/10702/
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:24 AM   #14775
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
We've narrowed it down to the Speed Passion 17.5 Club Spec system and an as yet un-named Orca 17.5 system. They both run with an "average" silver can. We had a driver running one yesterday and while the speed off the corners seemed better, it topped out just like an average 540J. I'm not comparing to the current batch of mutant "CS" 540J motors though. Those are simply an aberration...I hope.

Bob, I hope I didn't come across as rude in my earlier post. When you're typing with one finger on your iPhone, looking through one eye and trying to maintain a conversation with your mom at the same time, it gets tricky.



Yeah, it's true. I never shut up.
Jim, the big flap about the new CS brushed silvercans is not so much about their being so fast, but that they are consistantly over the rpm limit for the TCS races in the USA. The older soft brushed cans would blow right on by the rpm limit also, but not by so much.

No, you weren't rude. We just have a difference of opinion on the effect of bodies and how they can affect a cars handling, including stock Silvercan Minis. I was merely trying to point out since you run on carpet with no shortage of grip, you might not see any change. At the last TCS regional race here, the grid of the A main was almost all Swift bodies. I believe the lone exception was some old farts LWB BMW. They do make a difference here.

Actually, I'm glad you're back to racing and active on this thread again. Even if you don't make sense sometimes
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