R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-13-2011, 08:03 AM   #14386
Tech Elite
 
2-Bad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,725
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Man I thought Mini was suppose to be a walk in the park to setup and work on. The more I do to this M05 the worse it feels, Go Figure!!....
The car was all kit and handled predictable and reasonably well.

I decide to upgrade the servo to a high torque/ spped servo. Steering is more aggressive and now have to dialing down the steering throw. Put frt sway on to try and smooth out the steering a little. Helped a little.

Upgraded the shocks from plastic to alloy. Same oil (500wt) but in the mini trf shocks it feels soo much heavier. Rear never hopped before and now rear end hopping around so dropped it down to 400wt. Its better but not all gone.

Plastic steering rack was very stiff so pulled apart and greased. Now I'm getting straight line wander. So I reduced the toe-out a bit. Set the trim many times, then up at speed and the car will be straight then just wander off left or right, arghhh!!!

Need advice, com'n u Mini Guru's... help!!


__________________
Yokomo * G Force * Sanwa * SMC * ProSpec
2-Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 09:52 AM   #14387
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony gray View Post
I'm not sure I can believe all of that Bob - someone told me that you weren't the sharpest guy around....
Tony, never let the truth stand in the way of a good story. However, most of it is true and hope that my tongue in cheek narrative was not mistaken for sarcasm


Quote:
Originally Posted by caltek1 View Post
Martin,

I would have to say the mini drivers at SMA are the sharpest guy's around. The club has the fastest and close to the most consistant drivers in the mini class.

Me, I'm just sticking to what works for me at present, until the next best thing comes along. Hopefully I will get some time to finish building a new mini and can be among the crowd. Perhaps I should pull a MO3 out of mothballs and have another run with it. For me it comes back to what I feel is comfortable for my driving style or lack there of and how I'm feeling on the day.

I think the sharpest mini driver for car setup is Deniz, who has his car working very well and as you know most of you at SMA are running the MO3L, although I have heard Deniz has started running a short wheel based car.

I will stick to being a middle of the pack driver and work on getting better with more practice and more testing.

Bob,

Sounds like you have found the chassis you like in the MO3. Great to hear that you are enjoying your racing and loving the MO3.

Later,

Calvin.
Calvin, even I'm not brave enough to go there. Who and where the best Mini guys are????



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-Bad View Post
Man I thought Mini was suppose to be a walk in the park to setup and work on. The more I do to this M05 the worse it feels, Go Figure!!....
The car was all kit and handled predictable and reasonably well.

I decide to upgrade the servo to a high torque/ spped servo. Steering is more aggressive and now have to dialing down the steering throw. Put frt sway on to try and smooth out the steering a little. Helped a little.

Upgraded the shocks from plastic to alloy. Same oil (500wt) but in the mini trf shocks it feels soo much heavier. Rear never hopped before and now rear end hopping around so dropped it down to 400wt. Its better but not all gone.

Plastic steering rack was very stiff so pulled apart and greased. Now I'm getting straight line wander. So I reduced the toe-out a bit. Set the trim many times, then up at speed and the car will be straight then just wander off left or right, arghhh!!!

Need advice, com'n u Mini Guru's... help!!


What did I just get done posting???? Park the M05 and find a M03 cause you can usually find one pretty cheap. Transfer your electronics and put the M03M front end on it mainly cause it's sturdier. Set it up on the soft side and on some tracks a rear sway bar. Front sway bars tweak too easily. That's the best advice I can give you and will save you money and a lot of frustration.

The M05 can be a temperamental beast---sort of like an angry wife. You have to get it calmed down or it's a real pain. Your main problem in the steering is it's tweaked. Ditch the plastic steering. It's only for the highly skilled, which most of us aren't, and get the aluminum upgrades. Crank in enough toe out to get it to run straight. Set up is determined so much on what tires you have, that I won't comment. Copy what the guys at your track are doing. I'd still get the M03 tho cause it is so much kinder to newbies.
Granpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 10:50 AM   #14388
Tech Elite
 
mangoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,981
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

2-bad,

Try setting the front ride height as low as possible. I have a nagging suspicion that may also help to reduce the wandering along with massive toe out on the front.

My understanding is that the car hops because the rear is gripping up. Personally i like a lot of rear grip so it doesnt overly bother me when i see it, but the fast drivers would drive with less rear grip than i do and in turn their cars rotate better.
__________________
Hot Bodies Cyclone!!!
www.smaracing.org
www.rchobbies.com.au - www.feralbatteries.com.au
craig mcphee ( WHERE'S MY BEER )
mangoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 11:10 AM   #14389
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In der Black Forest mit der elves
Posts: 268
Default Inherent goodness

[QUOTE=Granpa;8645514]Tony, never let the truth stand in the way of a good story. However, most of it is true and hope that my tongue in cheek narrative was not mistaken for sarcasm

OK, Granpa, enough with the "not the sharpest guy" stuff. Folks, this guy has figured out more about the M05 and M03, and about silver-can motor tuning, than Bill Clinton ever figured out about women. "Sharpest guy", indeed.
And let me tell you how sharp I am. I've been running an M06 with the rear uprights reversed for the last two sessions at TA. So, in effect, I had 0 degrees rear toe-in or out. And why didn't I see it sooner? Because A) the car tracked really well, actually, and B) wasn't mad-loose on entry or exit, and C) after my third run yesterday I noticed the rear suspension was getting sloppy and generating toe-out, so I disassembled it to shim it up right, and found my bonehead maneuver. I just hope putting the rear uprights on the correct corner doesn't spoil my car; out of the box, my car was really good.
I hereby nominate myself as the "not the sharpest guy at TA". And I'll stir the pot about who's the fastest/best Mini guys.
It's the fast Mini guys at your home track, wherever that is. They're the ones whose brains to pick, and thank God, they're usually really friendly and willing to give advice, too.
Tom Slick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 11:56 AM   #14390
Tech Elite
 
2-Bad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,725
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Park the M05 and find a M03 cause you can usually find one pretty cheap.
Sorry Granpa, can't go that option as I've been given this car to run at Championship events so no option to switch...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Your main problem in the steering is it's tweaked. Ditch the plastic steering. It's only for the highly skilled, which most of us aren't, and get the aluminum upgrades. Crank in enough toe out to get it to run straight. Set up is determined so much on what tires you have, that I won't comment. Copy what the guys at your track are doing.
hmm, a new rack, ok. More toe out!! On RWD 2wd & 4wd cars I've found more toe out will make it wander in a straight line. Is why I took some out. Is it not the same on fwd cars? As for tires, most run Super Grips frt-rr...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
2-bad,
Try setting the front ride height as low as possible. I have a nagging suspicion that may also help to reduce the wandering along with massive toe out on the front.

My understanding is that the car hops because the rear is gripping up. Personally i like a lot of rear grip so it doesnt overly bother me when i see it, but the fast drivers would drive with less rear grip than i do and in turn their cars rotate better.
Hmm, ride height... I have it level on 4.5mm atm. I might try playing with that.
The rear hopping I thought was caused by the car feeling "dead" cos the oil was too thick not allowing suspension movement. Dropping the oil wt down from 500 to 400 did help that a little and the suspension feels more lively now too.

__________________
Yokomo * G Force * Sanwa * SMC * ProSpec
2-Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 02:49 PM   #14391
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Thank you for the compliment Tom. You are much too kind. Tom is someone I've been trying to talk into racing Minis more seriously. First time out in Mini he qualifies in the middle of the "A". With an M03 by the way. Very skilled driver who under rates himself.

FOR 2 Bad. Lesson #1 in Minis is to forget most of what you know about chassis tuning from your touring car days. They are almost as different as men and women. Your query about toe is an example. On a mini, USUALLY, toe out will make the car run straighter and turn in softer. Taking out some toe out can make the turn in more aggressive. Completely the opposite from a TC. Lesson #2 is that the SWB, MWB, & LWB all tune differently and an adjustment that's right for the SWB will usually be 180 degrees out for a LWB car. Since you are running S-Grips, you can do a lot of tuning with the inserts. The most versatile method is to stuff with TC inserts that have been cut to different lengths. If I remember correctly, start out circa 170mm, then use contact cement to glue the ends. A more consistant metod is to "double stuff" the tires by using a full length insert on the outside. The two combinations I used most often were the Muchmore Pink insert, full length, backed inside with the#50686 or the #53255 Tamiya foam inserts. It's been awhile so I don't remember whether the foam inserts had to be shortened, but I think so. The spec tire we run here is good and I believe the part # is1016. It's just a S-grip with the 53255 foam insert on the 11 spoke Swift type rim. They would make you a good rear tire but the wear rate is high when used in the front.

Start tuning with the tires, then go onto the other stuff.
Granpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 03:04 PM   #14392
Tech Elite
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Secret Underground Laboratory
Posts: 2,353
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

BK, you crack me up.
__________________
I've never lost.
I've just been a little bit behind when time ran out...

RED DOT MOTORS- Fastest Titan 12T and silver can 540 motors in the known galaxy!
rccardr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 03:26 PM   #14393
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,324
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caltek1 View Post
Martin,

I would have to say the mini drivers at SMA are the sharpest guy's around. The club has the fastest and close to the most consistant drivers in the mini class.

Me, I'm just sticking to what works for me at present, until the next best thing comes along. Hopefully I will get some time to finish building a new mini and can be among the crowd. Perhaps I should pull a MO3 out of mothballs and have another run with it. For me it comes back to what I feel is comfortable for my driving style or lack there of and how I'm feeling on the day.

I think the sharpest mini driver for car setup is Deniz, who has his car working very well and as you know most of you at SMA are running the MO3L, although I have heard Deniz has started running a short wheel based car.

I will stick to being a middle of the pack driver and work on getting better with more practice and more testing.

Bob,

Sounds like you have found the chassis you like in the MO3. Great to hear that you are enjoying your racing and loving the MO3.

Later,

Calvin.
Cal,

You are the fastest "slow" Mini driver i know.. LOL..

It's like some sort of voodoo mind game you play?? Or are you the old adage, Slow is fast?

hehehehe

Cheers
Jase
__________________
ARC R10 2013
Wylie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 03:26 PM   #14394
Tech Elite
 
caltek1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,354
Trader Rating: 33 (100%+)
Default

G'day Bob,

In the Sydney area that is where most of the fast mini drivers, (who regularly make the A's) are racing. Of course there are one or two fast mini drivers at other clubs, however the SMA guy's work as a team and share tyre/car setups.

This does not always happen with other mini drivers as they need to protect the speed secrets.

Anyway, I am happy when I make an "A", until the race face takes over.

Calvin.
caltek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 03:42 PM   #14395
Tech Elite
 
caltek1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,354
Trader Rating: 33 (100%+)
Default

Jase,

I wouldn't say fast. I do have some voodoo tracks where I just can't get things to work consistantly. I have always been told slow is fast. Only thing is being slow is hard to be consistant with. Lately I have been getting wooped, so I must be doing something really well or bad.

I have just changed my MO5 back to how it was late last year, after I found a couple of the things not working for me. Hopefully I will get to test today, that it is back to normal.

Tom,

I have tried running the 1.5 degree rear toe blocks reversed, however changed back to the original MO3 rear toe blocks which were zero degree. However when you lower the car, you would end up with approx 0.5 to 1 degree rear toe.

Might have to test again. I have found on tight tracks that having some rear toe helps.

2-Bad,

I run approx 2 degrees toe out on the front of my MO5L and use the front hole on the MO5 alloy front knuckle. If you are concerned with bump steer, place a spacer under the screw on the knuckle. 3-5mm should do the trick, so the outer linkage is higher than the linkage on the steering rack. I only use the Tamiya alloy steering rack complete.

Ride height varies for each track, but having the front lower than the rear works in most cases, provided your not scrubbing out on corners, otherwise you will push through the corner. Best advice, adjust until arms are either level or a little below. On the rear 1.5 degree rear hubs, I use the lower hole and adjust the arm as for the MO5L setup. This will give a lot of rear camber.

For tyres I mainly use only 55mm tyres, unless I want a larger rollout and then I use the Tamiya Type B's, Pit Shimizu (60 D tyre with hard foam insert) or Ride 60D size tyres.

The other culprit for wandering on the MO5 can be the diff itself. If you have one side slipping it will pull in that direction. I know one mini driver who runs 1mm difference in the steering linkage to prevent this. This way the car stays straight under acceleration.

Go get em Tiger,

Regards,

Calvin.

Last edited by caltek1; 02-13-2011 at 11:42 PM. Reason: revised text
caltek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 03:42 PM   #14396
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,945
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Hi 2-Bad,

Standard servos are fast enough for M05.

Plastic steering rack ok, except it has to be build carefully to avoid binding.

My experience with hopping is with the SWB and the LWB. The Mid wheelbase seems to be best compromise.

Straight line wander can be from a tight diff or lack of rear toe in.

Here's a good battle between my daughter's M05 (pink) and M06 (SWB, orange S800). M05 is with standard servo, S-grip tires, M05 ball diff, plastic steering rack, 2 deg rear toe hubs, zero front toe, 5mm ride height, Tamiya Lightly tuned motor and 2400 NiCad per Tamiya Asia Cup rules. M05 ball diff built normally like a TC diff, not cranked tight.

hth.
__________________
www.rccartips.com
www.f1rccars.com
www.f1rcclub.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/rccartips/
http://www.facebook.com/RCCarTipsFan
rccartips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 07:39 PM   #14397
Tech Initiate
 
nicorozog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bogotá - Colombia
Posts: 35
Send a message via MSN to nicorozog Send a message via Skype™ to nicorozog
Default Additives in Tires.............

Heyy guys!....i was wondering if there is an advantage if i use some additives in the tires.... normally i´ve been using Tamiya Super Slicks....and in my club there is an asphalt circuit so for example MuchMoreRacing has :V-Made Acute Asphalt Tyre Traction - Yellow ", maybe is only to get more grip??

Thanks A Lot!
nicorozog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 08:55 PM   #14398
Tech Elite
 
2-Bad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,725
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Lesson #1 in Minis is to forget most of what you know about chassis tuning from your touring car days.
That's good to know as it's been messing with my mind, eek!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Lesson #2 is that the SWB, MWB, & LWB all tune differently and an adjustment that's right for the SWB will usually be 180 degrees out for a LWB car.
I'm running the MWB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Since you are running S-Grips, you can do a lot of tuning with the inserts.
At least that's the same as TC. But do you have any combinations using Tamiya parts as I have to stick with Tamiya Spec racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caltek1 View Post
The other culprit for wandering on the MO5 can be the diff itself. If you have one side slipping it will pull in that direction. I know one mini driver who runs 1mm difference in the steering linkage to prevent this. This way the car stays straight under acceleration.
I just re-built the diff and have been told to tighten the diff as tight as possible (like a spool) and thats how I've set it, using tamiya anti-wear grease in the thrust and plates. Now if you turn either front wheel it will spin the motor and opposite wheel in the same direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
Standard servos are fast enough for M05.
Plastic steering rack ok, except it has to be build carefully to avoid binding.
Straight line wander can be from a tight diff or lack of rear toe in.

Here's a good M05 is with standard servo, S-grip tires, M05 ball diff, plastic steering rack, 2 deg rear toe hubs, zero front toe, 5mm ride height, Tamiya Lightly tuned motor and 2400 NiCad per Tamiya Asia Cup rules. M05 ball diff built normally like a TC diff, not cranked tight.
Hmmm, So you reckon the diif should be built normally.... wow this is opposite to all I've been told and read! I would have thought that could produce diff free wheeling in corners.
__________________
Yokomo * G Force * Sanwa * SMC * ProSpec
2-Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 09:29 PM   #14399
Tech Elite
 
caltek1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,354
Trader Rating: 33 (100%+)
Default

2-Bad,

There are a couple of other options for the diff. You can make a spool, by gluing up a gear diff or buy the 3Racing/Venom spool. This will wear parts and tyres quicker, but give great acceleration at the expense of some steering. However by changing setup you can get some of that back.

Personnally I do not like a spool, as I find it harder to drive consistantly in a mini.

I prefer to run a tight TAO3 ball diff, which I just change the outdrives on, when they become notched. I make mine tighter by using a different method to the US guy's by ditching the thrust bearing,(replace with a 1150 bearing) and adding a extra large cone washer. I then screw together, adding red loctite to the bolt and tighten. I do up tight, but not enough to strip the assembly. I then leave for 24 hrs before use. I do not back off the nut.

I have built the MO5 diff as per instructions when they were first released and the diff out action in the corners cost me plenty of better results. The cars with the tighter diffs, just outran all day. After going through about five diff bolts, from snapping when under stress, I moved on to modifying the MO5 ball diff and then got jack of that and went back to the TAO3 ball diff.

There are also ways to get a gear diff to work very well, using some innovative ideas, however that is another story.

Hope you have better success.

Calvin.

Last edited by caltek1; 02-13-2011 at 09:35 PM. Reason: added to the saga.
caltek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2011, 09:47 PM   #14400
Tech Adept
 
Laguna Bozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beach
Posts: 163
Default Good Reading

Grandpa, you ARE writing a Pretty
__________________
Craig Richter
Laguna Bozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tamiya Mini Cooper M-03L Hop-ups mini71 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 4 05-04-2016 11:07 AM
Tamiya Mini Cooper mach51 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 10 09-02-2011 12:08 AM
FS:TAMIYA Mini Cooper, TA 04S rthmotorsports R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 4 10-20-2007 09:37 PM
Tamiya 415 MSX and M03 Mini Cooper F/S Racer X79 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 14 12-22-2006 07:38 AM
Tamiya M01,02,03, or 04 Mini Cooper ccugolf.com R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 2 12-05-2004 08:55 PM


Tags
m03, m03r ules, m05, mini, tamiya


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:56 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0