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Old 01-06-2011, 12:23 AM   #14071
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I'm a fan of both the HW brushless and the silver can and here is why.
I run a silver can indoors on a short course windy type of track and it's perfect. If I tried using my HW indoors firstly I wouldn't get the power down and its a waste of time, silver can wins hands down.

Outdoors on a more open faster track and my silver can motor is a joke comparared to the consistancy of the HW brushless combo. Like people have mentioned before, the comparison with a HW and sports tuned motor is marginal but HW is slightly quicker. Can you compare the silver can to the above mentioned? no comparison period. HW and sports tuned win hands down.

Ok, invite everyone run the HW system as a standard and guess what? no more arguments , no more accusations on cheating and no more hovering around a commutator/brushes to see how its holding up! or better still no maintenance.

So shove the thing (HW) in you car and concentrate on your driving not the guy wizzing by with a suspicious motor

Racing mini's is all good here down under


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Old 01-06-2011, 01:39 AM   #14072
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Dont know if its true or not, but speaking to one of the guys who went to TCS a few years back i got the impression that it was common place for people to crank their motors.


Also having a magnet zapper is a big advantage. My impression is that it doesnt really increase rpms of the motor but will increase the torque.
But measuring RPMs with some of those little testing machines is so pointless.

I had a friend with a magnet zapper it wasnt cheap! When he stopped racing he offered it to me cheap but i couldnt justify it as i could see that brushless motors were on the verge of being used at the time.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:25 AM   #14073
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I have noticed that HPI are using OEM Hobbywing products and then rebranding them as their own much like they have done with Castle Creations products.

If HPI can do it then perhaps there is a chance that Tamiya will also come on board.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:42 AM   #14074
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Does the HPI 240Z fit the M03/M05 chassis ?

thanks
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:47 AM   #14075
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And this is exactly the reason why we use the Hobbywing system ... equality for all whether you have the money or not.
Not singling you out, but there were several posts echoing your sentiments and yours was the shortest. It seems to me that there are two basic philosophies at work here. One school seems to feel that all motors should be equal and racing should be about chassis tuning and driver skill. Now I can understand the sentiment, but just don't agree with it.

The other school feels that racing is racing and should include chassis, tires, driver, and MOTOR. This all should be equal BS just give me a pain. We have to run a Spec tire over here for TCS. There's this constant drumbeat for making everything equal----first motors and tires. Almost everyone runs the same tires and setup cause as soon as you find a good combination, it's copied. The perfect solution for the all should be equal crowd would be to do their race meetings on a computer game. All would be equal and it would be all about driver skill which is a sentiment I hear expressed often.

I'm glad almost everyone where you are likes the conversion to the Hobbywing. I think they're a fine system. They are not readily available here tho and there are some bootleg systems being sold online.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:55 AM   #14076
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racing

noun: the sport of engaging in contests of speed


this why we race. it is and allways has been about a contest of speed. Some people believe that it should be about the contest of driving ability. It is about the CONTEST OF SPEED.

just my $.02 worth
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:28 AM   #14077
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Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
Dont know if its true or not, but speaking to one of the guys who went to TCS a few years back i got the impression that it was common place for people to crank their motors.


Also having a magnet zapper is a big advantage. My impression is that it doesnt really increase rpms of the motor but will increase the torque.
But measuring RPMs with some of those little testing machines is so pointless.

I had a friend with a magnet zapper it wasnt cheap! When he stopped racing he offered it to me cheap but i couldnt justify it as i could see that brushless motors were on the verge of being used at the time.
Nah, not true. Too easy to pop a wire if you try to get much out of the motors. Your friend probably ran into the "magnetically" enhanced motors which was very new 6 or 7 years ago.

Also, on the subject of "cranking", it was legal until finally addressed in the 2011 TCS rules. Up until now, there was nothing, nada, zippo, zilch about it in the TCS rules, at least in the last 5 or 6 years. This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Sorry, but I can't agree with much you say about a magnet zapper either. Besides a magnet zapper was designed for motors with a removeable end bell. You made a wise decision not to get the zapper if you were planning on using it on a Silvercan type motor. Zappers and Silvercans can be a tricky business and I only know of one guy who knows how to do it.

Can't agree with you on the motor tester either, cause I find them to be a valuable tool. What you say maybe true in Hobbywing territory, but in rpm limit territory, they are indispensable
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:35 AM   #14078
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Red Dot motors have one disadvantage. They run hotter than the average Silver Can. If you want your racing to be closer make your tracks more technical. This will in turn take the Rpm advantage away from the Red Dot motors, and all the braking/ excellerating will cause them to over heat. Those who posses the Red Dots have to drop down in pinions (16,18) to compinsate.

Like every different mini, (M03,M04,M05,M06) they all have different track setups which play to their strengths. All the different versions of Silver cans are the same way!
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:43 AM   #14079
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He has a red dot motor!
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:55 AM   #14080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Not singling you out, but there were several posts echoing your sentiments and yours was the shortest. It seems to me that there are two basic philosophies at work here. One school seems to feel that all motors should be equal and racing should be about chassis tuning and driver skill. Now I can understand the sentiment, but just don't agree with it.

The other school feels that racing is racing and should include chassis, tires, driver, and MOTOR. This all should be equal BS just give me a pain. We have to run a Spec tire over here for TCS. There's this constant drumbeat for making everything equal----first motors and tires. Almost everyone runs the same tires and setup cause as soon as you find a good combination, it's copied. The perfect solution for the all should be equal crowd would be to do their race meetings on a computer game. All would be equal and it would be all about driver skill which is a sentiment I hear expressed often.

I'm glad almost everyone where you are likes the conversion to the Hobbywing. I think they're a fine system. They are not readily available here tho and there are some bootleg systems being sold online.
Its a never ending battle.

I'm sure Hobbywing systems arent consistent throughout the board, just like the silvercans.

I'll stick to the silver can and bitching about being slower than some. Eventually there will be a "red dot" style Hobbywing.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:08 AM   #14081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
Does the HPI 240Z fit the M03/M05 chassis ?

thanks
M05 fits well, on the 03, im not sure how much room there is for the servo.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:12 AM   #14082
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M05 fits well, on the 03, im not sure how much room there is for the servo.
Thanks. The M05 is what I have, though, I might be looking for a M03 too.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:12 AM   #14083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Not singling you out, but there were several posts echoing your sentiments and yours was the shortest. It seems to me that there are two basic philosophies at work here. One school seems to feel that all motors should be equal and racing should be about chassis tuning and driver skill. Now I can understand the sentiment, but just don't agree with it.

The other school feels that racing is racing and should include chassis, tires, driver, and MOTOR. This all should be equal BS just give me a pain. We have to run a Spec tire over here for TCS. There's this constant drumbeat for making everything equal----first motors and tires. Almost everyone runs the same tires and setup cause as soon as you find a good combination, it's copied. The perfect solution for the all should be equal crowd would be to do their race meetings on a computer game. All would be equal and it would be all about driver skill which is a sentiment I hear expressed often.

I'm glad almost everyone where you are likes the conversion to the Hobbywing. I think they're a fine system. They are not readily available here tho and there are some bootleg systems being sold online.
Id like to respectfully disagree with this here Granpa, simple reason why its done is $$, its cheaper to cut down the options. Sure you can copy someones setup etc and you end up with everyone on the same tire for instance, but your SOL if you from out of town. Add to that the changes in track etc, if your serious, you better bring a suitcase full of tires. Ive done it before, had every combination of tire and insert at an event. It simply got ridiculous, and currently here in Alberta, we have a spec tire for all touring classes. Its brilliant! I dont have a problem with people wanting more equipment equality, I encourage it. Opening up more equipment, and less spec rules means more $, plain and simple.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:13 AM   #14084
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Thanks. The M05 is what I have, though, I might be looking for a M03 too.
the 510 works well on the 03, and looks awesome too! just be prepared to cut the hell out of the front arches if you run 60D tires.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:22 AM   #14085
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Granpa nah it was definitely cranking the motor. It was a few years back though and your comment about it being legal upto 2011 kind of astounds me (relative to our racing rules).

The guy when he told me about it said that some dude from another country just goes and does it to his motor and he was pretty much told everyone was doing it.

Ive never done it or seen it it donw but ive had a number of of locals who say they reckon they could crank a motor in a minor way so that its hard to spot where the windings should be tight at the comm. But even a small amount of movement would be an advantage.


As for magnet zapping. I know the difference because he had a PROPER dyno. So he had torque curves and rpms for my silver cans.

I used to hate hassling him to do them for me, because he didnt like taking the stuff to the track (i assume otherwise everyone starts walking up to you and asking you to zap and dyno their motors). But i mainly did it for 540 touring car which i was terrible at because i cant drive smooth through a corner, which also means the brushless in a mini was also a massive help for my performance.

I spoke to one of the other locals who had a dyno and used to use it for his black cans in mini. He told me a secret where he was convinced you could get more speed from zapping a motor in a particular way. He had a dyno as well and i have no reason to believe he was lieing.
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Last edited by mangoman; 01-06-2011 at 07:34 PM.
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