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Old 01-05-2011, 08:47 AM   #14056
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I don't quite understand all this brushless talk for mini.

In our club we all run silver can. Even in our sedan class now we have most people racing silver/black can motors.

I do understand people can 'cheat' with a red dot silver can to get more speed however we eliminate that in our local club.

The racing is slower than brushless however it really is tight/clean/close racing. Way better than stock/mod/brushless Sedan ever was.

If you want to bring your numbers up for local racing then allow silver cans and eliminate red dot motors.

We only started the Mini class last April and we have over 40 regular mini racers and I think most of that is due to the silver can.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:39 AM   #14057
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Originally Posted by TheZoof View Post
I don't quite understand all this brushless talk for mini.

In our club we all run silver can. Even in our sedan class now we have most people racing silver/black can motors.

I do understand people can 'cheat' with a red dot silver can to get more speed however we eliminate that in our local club.

The racing is slower than brushless however it really is tight/clean/close racing. Way better than stock/mod/brushless Sedan ever was.

If you want to bring your numbers up for local racing then allow silver cans and eliminate red dot motors.

We only started the Mini class last April and we have over 40 regular mini racers and I think most of that is due to the silver can.
Why is everyone such haters of reddot motors? They are NOT cheater motors and they are available to everyone.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:48 AM   #14058
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Actually i think the main problem in australia that really pushed us to brushless was the really poor quality sports tuned motors which are now produced.

We generally speaking dont race silver cans in our minis.

The brushless system also had the advantage of being a lot more equal so people didnt have to go out and buy 3-4 motors to see if they had one decent one worth keeping for big meets.

Or a really big bag of sports tuned motors **COUGH COUGH** :P

However, just out of interest for people who race silver cans. Do you ban those red dot motors?
To address the Red Dot question first, it depends on who's putting on the race. For the USA TCS Series in 2011, you won't see them. We have a rpm limit that pretty much eliminates that type of modified motor. I almost never see a Blackcan except for the one I'm using as a paper weight.

It's interesting that there are so many misconceptions about the Silvercan motor, even among those who race them. Amazingly, they are very equal in performance. The rumor that they weren't was spread by the old time motor "tuners" to cover their tracks. 90% of the Silvercans, when new and just have had the brushes seated, will fall within less than 500rpm at 5v. The other 10% will be slower. There are no "miracle" motors out there. I have purchased, raced, modified, checked, tested,"repaired", reclaimed from the Dead motor pool, well over a thousand, and probably closer to two thousand of them, and have never found a "miracle" motor yet.

Putting a modified Silvercan in your Mini is a real "kick". A motor that's turning 17 or 18k plus @5v or is doing well over 26 or 27k at 7.2v will test your driving and set up skills. On a short course you'd have to gear that baby down. Presently, I do all my set up and practice with motors that are 10 - 15% faster than stock. Just works better for me. The performance would approximate what you guys are running----maybe just a touch slower.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:20 AM   #14059
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Why is everyone such haters of reddot motors? They are NOT cheater motors and they are available to everyone.
No one hates the Red Dot or the magnetically enhanced motors. I personally am a big fan of them and feel that Doc is providing a real service at a reasonable price. That he's willing to "share" the results of many years of research, hard work and dollars is a good thing in my book.

Here is the #1 problem with them as I see it. "I ain't spending no $45 on a $20Silvercan". How many times have you seen that type of post or heard that type of comment. Sometimes, the guy saying that is not IQ challenged. Good grief, even a Mini will run you close to $500 and you're going to bitch about an extra quarter? How about the guys who have a grand or so in a TC?

Problem #2 is this, especially in Mini and not so much in TC. A Red Dot will absolutely blow away a stock Silvercan. Thus, you will have created the need to have two classes. A mod class and a stock class. I don't know what the racing situation is like where you are, but some times we have trouble getting 1 heat of Minis here. I stopped racing at one venue cause ther just wasn't enough interest.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:19 PM   #14060
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hey im sorry if this was ask and beat to death but i google and didnt come up with much. can you convert m-3 to a m-5?
does some one have a link with parts that can be exchange with each other?
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:37 PM   #14061
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m-03/m-05

lower control arms, gears, diff, outdrives, axles, steering knuckles, dampers, uprights, motor...that's pretty much the whole driveline and suspension, minus the upper suspension arms.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:58 PM   #14062
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hey im sorry if this was ask and beat to death but i google and didnt come up with much. can you convert m-3 to a m-5?
does some one have a link with parts that can be exchange with each other?
From my perspective, why bother. The $$$ you save if any, just isn't worth the hassle. The cost of a new kit is less than $120 and if you take the body into consideration, less than $75. Just build the kit and transfer your electronics.

Personally, I like the 03 better anyway, but I only race on asphalt and don't have much carpet experience. The 05 was better on carpet for the little time I have on that surface.
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:23 PM   #14063
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I wish Tamiya would start installing these kinds of systems in the M chassis kits...
from a company that wont even include wheel bearings
& instead give us low tech nylon bushes
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:24 PM   #14064
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When the M05 first came out I converted my M03 to and M05. The hassel i had was finding all the screws, bushing, tie rods and the such. The biggest problem I had was with the steering. I got it to work. Eventually I bought a kit anyway.

Think you need the A, B, C, D, F Trees... Like $38 from tower.

I would suggest buying the kit if you have the funds...

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Old 01-05-2011, 02:34 PM   #14065
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Originally Posted by hairy View Post
Why is everyone such haters of reddot motors? They are NOT cheater motors and they are available to everyone.
But only CHEATERS would use them in a silvercan race class.
Cheating: bending or breaking the rules to gain an advantage
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:55 PM   #14066
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But only CHEATERS would use them in a silvercan race class.
Cheating: bending or breaking the rules to gain an advantage
.
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Last edited by hairy; 01-05-2011 at 02:57 PM. Reason: I know better than to argue with an idiot
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:22 PM   #14067
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.
hahaha i did the same thing Hairy. I read your post from the notification email, i wrote the same thing, then deleted it. I get frustrated with these kind of people also, I HATE it when someone calls you a cheat. A couple of times, ive leant my cars to others, just to show them there is no cheating. Its called hard work and learning.....

Red Dot motors are legal people, and what is done to a Red Dot, anyone one of you can do easily and legally. Doc charges you $25 so you dont have to get messy yourself, so suck it up lol.

And we all know, the only reason why someone doesnt win is the motor right..... lol
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:12 PM   #14068
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hahaha i did the same thing Hairy. I read your post from the notification email, i wrote the same thing, then deleted it. I get frustrated with these kind of people also, I HATE it when someone calls you a cheat. A couple of times, ive leant my cars to others, just to show them there is no cheating. Its called hard work and learning.....

Red Dot motors are legal people, and what is done to a Red Dot, anyone one of you can do easily and legally. Doc charges you $25 so you dont have to get messy yourself, so suck it up lol.

And we all know, the only reason why someone doesnt win is the motor right..... lol
Yea and my new years resolution is not to argue with the idiots of the world.like my tag line says,ignorance scares me,'cause you just can't fix stupid!
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:23 PM   #14069
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Red Dot motors are legal people, and what is done to a Red Dot, anyone one of you can do easily and legally. Doc charges you $25 so you dont have to get messy yourself, so suck it up lol.

And we all know, the only reason why someone doesnt win is the motor right..... lol
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you may be in error with this statement. What Doc does to build a Red Dot is most definitely not done easily and is beyond the capability of the vast majority of racers. It requires a considerable investment of $$$$ and the willingness to spend a lot of time in research and trial and error. All of the equipment has to be "home built" or designed and farmed out to be fabricated. If it were easy and "anyone of you" could do it, Red Dot motors would not exist. I'm not questioning the legality of the Red Dot motors, just whether it's easy to build one.

Also, someone using a box stock motor has no chance, none, against a Red Dot. And, yes, I can envision scenarios where the guy with the stock motor could win, but not one where the drivers and cars were close to being equal.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:14 PM   #14070
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you may be in error with this statement. What Doc does to build a Red Dot is most definitely not done easily and is beyond the capability of the vast majority of racers. It requires a considerable investment of $$$$ and the willingness to spend a lot of time in research and trial and error. All of the equipment has to be "home built" or designed and farmed out to be fabricated. If it were easy and "anyone of you" could do it, Red Dot motors would not exist. I'm not questioning the legality of the Red Dot motors, just whether it's easy to build one.

Also, someone using a box stock motor has no chance, none, against a Red Dot. And, yes, I can envision scenarios where the guy with the stock motor could win, but not one where the drivers and cars were close to being equal.

And this is exactly the reason why we use the Hobbywing system ... equality for all whether you have the money or not.
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