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Old 02-14-2006, 06:54 PM   #1186
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Originally Posted by jw92656
I have recently acquired a Fantom Dyno, and have been conducting some tests. So far my water dipped motors have shown negative results vs a new out of the box motor ...
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Originally Posted by StadiumChris
How do you guys break in these stock motors ... What is the technique? Water dipping I heard, but I haven't got a clue on how to do that.
Stadium Chris,
When I first started I was amazed at how much difference there is in the fast guys motors and mine. The fast guys were always helpfull in every aspect of my Mini racing except for the motor speed tricks. I was getting suspicious that "cranking the comm" was occurring until some of them let me in on some of the secrets.

As a disclaimer, I am a middle of the pack racer; I'll tell you what has worked for me, but I'm not the best, and I'll love to hear from more of the fast guys on this subject. Also, my results are from a motor checker with volts, amps, and rpm without a load (and the track). John Whittman and I race together at SoCal and we've talked about running lots of motors on his Fantom Dyno and really learn what works but we haven't done that yet.

1. Water dipping worked for me. New my motor was 11.5k rpm drawing 0.9 amps. After running it at 5 volts for 10-15 minutes (checking it every couple of minutes) in a cup of water (make sure you use battery power not an AC power supply) and adding a little bushing oil I was able to get it up to 12.5k rpm drawing 1.2 amps. I could see that the brushes were curved better to the comm. I could definately feel the motor performing better but I was still being pulled away on the straight by faster guys.

2. After a while the comm gets dirty. Get some brass cleaner (Brasso or some other brand at the grocery store). Put a few drops on the comm and spin the armature back and forth; rinse very well with water and dry. The comm should really shine. By the time I'd raced a while, brushes had seated well, and the com was cleanned, I'd gotten the motor to 13.2k rpm and 1.5 to 1.6 amps.

3. Add comm drops. The motor went to 13.0 rpm and 1.9-2.0 amps, and it's strength was very noticable on the track. Some controversy here, some guys told me not to use comm drops because of buildup will eventually gum the motor - I believe the brass cleaning will prevent that. My times are slower at the end of a race compared to the beginning, some have said is the comm drops wearing off, although I also have mushy batteries that I'm replacing soon.

This worked. Water dip to break in the brushes, oil the bushings, clean the comm with brass cleaner, put in comm drops. It hasn't made me the fastest, it just made me much, much faster.
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Old 02-14-2006, 07:09 PM   #1187
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I remember back a few years ago guys squeezing their cans in a vice to get the magnets as close as possible to the arm (I assume this is illegal). I never tried it, but they said it worked. Also they used Bright boy brass polish and Prolong oil treatment as comm drops. You will need to clean the motor out after every run if you use the Prolong. I can't tell you what works best, but it seems like they get better with age. I won 2 classes the last time I ran TCS with just old worn in silver motors and Prolong drops. No special tricks.

It probably doesn't hurt that most of these guys would buy 20 motors at a time to get 1 or 2 beasts. Also production tollerences play a big role from motor to motor.
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Old 02-14-2006, 07:10 PM   #1188
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Originally Posted by jw92656
That appears to be the Eagle set. You can also get it from Integy direct, or through one of there resellers, although they might have to order it for you.
I ordered this and used it once. The teeth chipped up and it needed replacing after 1 day of practice. I'm not saying this isn't a good set, I may have not installed it right, but thought that Delrin gear would be quieter than the stock and wear better; it didn't for me. I've heard that the Integy set is a taller gear ratio than the stock Tamiya, but this set was the same size, so I don't think it's Integy's.
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:25 PM   #1189
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Originally Posted by HotrodHopkins
you can convert the M-03L to a M-03 by taking out that middle section.

yeah, but i like the silver chasis and old cooper body than the new one
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:31 PM   #1190
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Jeff you are spot on for your treatment of motors. Prolong was used in the past but now Tribo is a little more popular and shows a touch better on the dyno.

Eagle or Tobee makes the other gearset and it is not legal for TCS. We have used it in an Enduro car to get the FDR down to a 5.2 and the Sedans we were racing in an Enduro with could not believe the speed. We also had Sedan rims on an M04M Miata.
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:31 PM   #1191
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Racebucks
Tnx for the info. For how many minutes should we dip our silver can motor while running???
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Old 02-15-2006, 05:28 AM   #1192
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Shows how long ago I was in the TCS loop. I first started out with Duralube, but then the new fast drop was Prolong... .
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Jeff you are spot on for your treatment of motors. Prolong was used in the past but now Tribo is a little more popular and shows a touch better on the dyno.

Eagle or Tobee makes the other gearset and it is not legal for TCS. We have used it in an Enduro car to get the FDR down to a 5.2 and the Sedans we were racing in an Enduro with could not believe the speed. We also had Sedan rims on an M04M Miata.
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Old 02-15-2006, 06:32 AM   #1193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Difuser
Jeff you are spot on for your treatment of motors. Prolong was used in the past but now Tribo is a little more popular and shows a touch better on the dyno.

Eagle or Tobee makes the other gearset and it is not legal for TCS. We have used it in an Enduro car to get the FDR down to a 5.2 and the Sedans we were racing in an Enduro with could not believe the speed. We also had Sedan rims on an M04M Miata.

What is Tribo?
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Old 02-15-2006, 06:45 AM   #1194
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What is Tribo?

Here you go.....Tribo

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Old 02-15-2006, 06:46 AM   #1195
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Boomer, do you have any at the store???
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Old 02-15-2006, 06:51 AM   #1196
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Thanks Boomer. Yes do you have any? I would be interested in getting some. How wold I order from Ohio?
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Old 02-15-2006, 02:15 PM   #1197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw92656
I have recently acquired a Fantom Dyno, and have been conducting some tests. So far my water dipped motors have shown negative results vs a new out of the box motor I have purchased. I would run up a new dry motor to 7.2V, and slowly drop it down to loosen the bushings, and just keep the comm clean, and the bushings oiled. So far it seems to work the best?
I agree. I did testing this past weekend with the 540 motors and its break in.

Out of the box on the Turbo dyno was better than reading taken at 3hours, 5hours and 8hours of water break in. Of the reading taken during break in, 5 hours yielded the best results, however still less than out of the box.

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Old 02-15-2006, 02:31 PM   #1198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffaelli
I agree. I did testing this past weekend with the 540 motors and its break in.

Out of the box on the Turbo dyno was better than reading taken at 3hours, 5hours and 8hours of water break in. Of the reading taken during break in, 5 hours yielded the best results, however still less than out of the box.

Problem for you Chris was the water you use...if you have "well water"...like most places in northern NY, there is too much calcium and other minerals in the water. (ie: hard water...hence the need for water softeners)

You should have used distilled water. Bel-Ray used to make a motor bath cleaner which I used to break-in / cleaner sealed endbel motors...I do not think they still produce this product.

Do I have to teach you everything
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Old 02-15-2006, 02:48 PM   #1199
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Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
Problem for you Chris was the water you use...if you have "well water"...like most places in northern NY, there is too much calcium and other minerals in the water. (ie: hard water...hence the need for water softeners)

You should have used distilled water. Bel-Ray used to make a motor bath cleaner which I used to break-in / cleaner sealed endbel motors...I do not think they still produce this product.

Do I have to teach you everything

Silly silly Carl.....it is only in New Jersey that the water sucks.

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Old 02-15-2006, 04:55 PM   #1200
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what ride height do you guys run on carpet? I have TRF shocks and short springs on the Mini, but I cant seem to get the ride height to go lower than 6mm
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