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Old 09-14-2009, 04:34 AM   #10141
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Originally Posted by caltek1 View Post
Team-RTR,

If you read the attached link, it will tell you all about mini shocks. It relates what happens when you run them at full length and with spacers.

http://www.rc-mini.net/joomla/index....d=44&Itemid=60

tonyG,

Thanks for all the mini info in one place. I think people forget about your site.

Regards,

Calvin.
calvin i have read of people adding weight in the front bumper, how much is adequate?

Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:42 AM   #10142
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The shaft doesn't rotate. It is jammed into the chassis halves. The bearings rotate on the shaft. As for saving weight, well the Mini is a better handler when not super light
It doesn't matter if the shaft itself does not rotate, it doesn't need to. From the POV of the ball bearing it's the same thing. If you hold the center sleeve of the bearing so that it doesn't spin the bearing still spins. That's the whole point of having a ball bearing. If the carbon shaft doesn't need to rotate then the steel one doesn't either.

As for weight that depends on what you're looking to achieve. Physics says lighter weight = less mass = less inertia = better handling IF you know how to set it up with the right tires etc. If more weight equals better handling we'd all be driving dump trucks.

Also less weight equals higher acceleration again assuming you have the right tire and suspension setup.

What you want is better weight distribution, not weight.
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:58 AM   #10143
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It doesn't matter if the shaft itself does not rotate, it doesn't need to. From the POV of the ball bearing it's the same thing. If you hold the center sleeve of the bearing so that it doesn't spin the bearing still spins. That's the whole point of having a ball bearing. If the carbon shaft doesn't need to rotate then the steel one doesn't either.

As for weight that depends on what you're looking to achieve. Physics says lighter weight = less mass = less inertia = better handling IF you know how to set it up with the right tires etc. If more weight equals better handling we'd all be driving dump trucks.

Also less weight equals higher acceleration again assuming you have the right tire and suspension setup.

What you want is better weight distribution, not weight.
You have a lot to learn about the Mini

If too light the Mini simply falls over because on the M03 a lot of the weight is up high (servos etc). And without some of that weight the Mini just wheel spins. WE have seen it over and over ... I can add a littlew weight and my Mini is quicker and stabl. Without the weight it can fall over
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:15 AM   #10144
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Originally Posted by cannon View Post
You have a lot to learn about the Mini

If too light the Mini simply falls over because on the M03 a lot of the weight is up high (servos etc). And without some of that weight the Mini just wheel spins. WE have seen it over and over ... I can add a littlew weight and my Mini is quicker and stabl. Without the weight it can fall over
What happens when ya weight gets spat out hehehe

Yep when I first started using a lipo my car weighted like 1160 and handled like crap, now it runs between 1330 and 1430 and gets round awesome...i just need to learn to drive it now.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:16 AM   #10145
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You have a lot to learn about the Mini

If too light the Mini simply falls over because on the M03 a lot of the weight is up high (servos etc). And without some of that weight the Mini just wheel spins. WE have seen it over and over ... I can add a littlew weight and my Mini is quicker and stabl. Without the weight it can fall over
The wheel spins for many reasons.

Tire selection not sticky enough

Suspension not setup correctly

Weight distribution is wrong


Adding weight over the drive wheels increases traction under throttle. On the other hand adding weight to the whole car is not the ideal solution, if it is then your setup is completely wrong. It's just a hack to some other fundamental problem.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:20 AM   #10146
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Team-RTR,

I am not sure which chassis you are running, but on the MO5 we are getting about 20-30 gms inside the front bumper. I have not tried to add weight into the MO3 bumper.

Greg is correct with regards the MO3. If you run them light, dependant on setup, using Lipo's they tend to fall over quickly. Most of us add lead weight which gives us a more stable car.

The MO5 is a different car and as such requires a different setup. I am still experimenting with car setup and do not have a definitive answer. Yes I have something that works, but not necessarily all the time. I have a MO5M and a MO5L, both with different shocks, springs and tyres.

I think the biggest hurdle to overcome with the car is to get it to track straight, so it can be driven at full noise and you have the confidence that the car will track straight. Once that is sorted out then the setups can be fully explored.

It is no fun trying to drive a car that does not want to go straight at full noise. It tends to ruin yours and other racers runs.

PaPeRo,

The carbon gear shafts are a niciety to have, but I stick with the standard ones on my MO3. I usually run my MO3L at 1540 gms ready to run with a Lipo. Why, because it is more stable and doesn't traction roll. This means higher corner speeds.

On the MO5 they might be useful, but I want as much weight forward, to get maximum traction to minimise wheel spin.

Remember this is just my opinion, if you want to use the other stuff, then do so. At the end of the day, how you set up your car is your choice. Your racing results will dictate your success.

I know that there is a wealth of knowledge and setup tricks at rc-mini net. It is up to yourself how much you want to use.

Things to remember.

Here in Aust we use BL systems which have heaps of torque which changes our setups. The other thing is we use small diameter tyres as we have found them to be faster than 60D's and last longer. Our cars are mainly tuned using different tyres and inserts of which we nornmally run different brands, hardness and inserts front and rear.

Regards,

Calvin.

Last edited by caltek1; 09-14-2009 at 05:26 AM. Reason: xtra info
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:34 AM   #10147
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Team-RTR,

Tech Racing have released this weight for the MO5, which goes into the front bumper.

Regards,

Calvin
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:37 AM   #10148
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Default MO5 NEW TECH RACING PARTS

More new parts for MO5.
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Tamiya mini cooper-mr5050-hp1.jpg   Tamiya mini cooper-mr5060-hp1.jpg   Tamiya mini cooper-mr5080-hp1.jpg   Tamiya mini cooper-mr5090-hp1.jpg   Tamiya mini cooper-mr5100-hp1.jpg  

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Old 09-14-2009, 05:40 AM   #10149
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The parts that are in cad drawings will be released on 16 Sep according to the web site. The other steering parts and replacement stabilizer set were released 9 Sep. The stabilizer set replaces the roll cage on the MO5.

Regards,

Calvin.
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Tamiya mini cooper-mr5110-hp1.jpg   Tamiya mini cooper-mr5120-hp1.jpg  
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:59 AM   #10150
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It is perfectly possible to set up a light car so that it handles well, but it does take a while to figure things out. We've been running our Mini's at 1300 grams for the last several years- with some VERY hot Red Dot motors - and the cars work fine.

RayK and I ran ours at the US Nats at 1200 grams per the Nats rules and both of us placed in the top 10. Although the TCS Nats used somewhat slower handout silver cans, everyone I spoke to found their car to handle quite well.

It does require a different setup (remember we are limited to Tamiya wheels and tires), but it is possible, and they ARE fast!

I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that a lighter car will accelerate, stop, and corner faster than a heavy one.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:00 AM   #10151
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Is that all tech racing stuff cal??? Hopefully Tamiya will start releasing some cool stuff soon.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:03 AM   #10152
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
It is perfectly possible to set up a light car so that it handles well, but it does take a while to figure things out. We've been running our Mini's at 1300 grams for the last several years- with some VERY hot Red Dot motors - and the cars work fine.

RayK and I ran ours at the US Nats at 1200 grams per the Nats rules and both of us placed in the top 10. Although the TCS Nats used somewhat slower handout silver cans, everyone I spoke to found their car to handle quite well.

It does require a different setup (remember we are limited to Tamiya wheels and tires), but it is possible, and they ARE fast!

I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that a lighter car will accelerate, stop, and corner faster than a heavy one.
What you have said is true to a degree but some weight i also required to provide the traction .

We are also looking at this using a vastly different motor system to you. We are using a Hobbywing BL system which generates far more torque and faster top speeds. This all adds to the handling dynamics
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:10 AM   #10153
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G'day rccardr,

It would be interesting to see some of your setups. We have found that with light mini's we tend to roll over very quickly. For our local mini rules we have to be above 1330 gms to be legal. We have found the MO3 to require the extra weight to be stable and the MO5 needs to have weight added to become legal weight.

Perhaps I should do some more testing, however we did see yesterday that our normally fast driver left the extra weight out of his MO3 and he traction rolled and was slower than normal. When he added weight to his car, he was the car to catch.

Regards,

Calvin.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:12 AM   #10154
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Scotty,

Yes all Tech racing stuff for the MO5. Tamiya will be releasing steering stuff sometime in October/Nov. The sooner the better.

Regards,

Calvin.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:12 AM   #10155
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With all due respect, we may have to agree to disagree.

Weight does not cause traction, weight transfer within the dynamic parameters of the vehicle cause traction to occur at the proper level and at the proper moment.

I've tested the HW system (and like it a lot) but due to the gearing limitations of the Mini it produces about the same results (say within a tenth or so in lap times, with neither motor holding a clear advantage) as a full race Red Dot silver can.

So we really are talking about the same thing, although the HW system is somewhat wider in the motor and a little heavier in the ESC than what many racers use up here, which leads to a slightly altered weight distribution.
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