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Old 08-29-2009, 11:25 AM   #9976
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so based on what everyone is saying who actually uses brushless in a MINI, when there is a spec system they are all very similar in speed. Someone is not going to waste time hacking brushless speed controls to have some small gain that wouldnt give them much of an advantage they would do it to give them a noticeable advantage. Also, if they were noticably faster with the same system, it would be obvious they were doing something to it, not like with a silver can when someone is noticably faster people just think, oh looks like they got a good one. Seems like the only people against brushless in mini are ones who dont even race it on a regular basis, and ones who have silver can tuning figured out and dont want to lose their advantage.
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:47 AM   #9977
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Seems like the only people against brushless in mini are ones who dont even race it on a regular basis, and ones who have silver can tuning figured out and dont want to lose their advantage.
I can't agree with you on that point. Your not taking other factors into account. For example, my club runs nothing but silver cans in minis. The whole point is to keep costs down, and it does.

I don't know exactly what people are doing to to burn through a motor or two per year. I've been running mine for at least a year now, and it's probably got more than six months left in it. Most others in my club have similar experiences to mine, or have been running their motors even longer.

So, $15 every year or two for a silver can, or $150 for a BL system? Even if we were to burn through a motor per year, it would take 10 years to justify the price.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have BL systems available for us to run at our club. Some guys have fast motors, and I would really like to see things equalized. The price point just isn't good enough though.

Jim
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:52 AM   #9978
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Exactly what brushless syatem are you taking about? Part number, etc.?
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Old 08-29-2009, 01:10 PM   #9979
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I can't agree with you on that point. Your not taking other factors into account. For example, my club runs nothing but silver cans in minis. The whole point is to keep costs down, and it does.

I don't know exactly what people are doing to to burn through a motor or two per year. I've been running mine for at least a year now, and it's probably got more than six months left in it. Most others in my club have similar experiences to mine, or have been running their motors even longer.

So, $15 every year or two for a silver can, or $150 for a BL system? Even if we were to burn through a motor per year, it would take 10 years to justify the price.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have BL systems available for us to run at our club. Some guys have fast motors, and I would really like to see things equalized. The price point just isn't good enough though.

Jim
I understand your point in keeping everything cheap. I don't understand this class anymore because we say "let's keep everything cheap/fair" for the motor side but allow $150+ ESCs to run with that ESC that comes with the kits. Oh, and let's change the batt connectors to Deans and we already have a faster car than the RTR mini. New racers are already at a disadvantage at that point.

And then we get the tweakers that will dyno the silver cans they buy in mass quantities and choose the best ones or pay ridiculous prices for such motors. Veteran/sponsored racers also have access to equipment that most people can't get to. I'm sure most clubs know a car or two that is noticeably faster than the rest in the mabuchi motor classes. You then can't blame the new racers to get discouraged and quit.

Your club may be lucky and not have a tweaker, or it just so happened that everyone's silver/black can is relatively the same. But when those conditions are breached, things can get expensive fast.
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Old 08-29-2009, 02:36 PM   #9980
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I see your point, but ESCs are a relative non-issue when it comes to silver can racing. We have top 5 racers running both the stock ESC and very expensive ones. Silver cans just don't draw enough to make it a matter of how much power an ESC can put out. Connectors don't make that much of a difference either.

As for whether or not we have cheaters in our presence: I suppose that's a risk we take. We all keep an eye on one another and hope for the best. The way I see it is that if you're cheating and winning all the time, it just has to get boring eventually. There's no challenge in cheating and winning.

Liedpt2: We're discussing the Hobbywing EZ Run system. I think it's the 13T version. It's based on a 380 sized motor, so it's a perfect equivalent to the Mabuchi black can motors.

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Old 08-29-2009, 02:44 PM   #9981
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Liedpt2: We're discussing the Hobbywing EZ Run system. I think it's the 13T version. It's based on a 380 sized motor, so it's a perfect equivalent to the Mabuchi black can motors.

Jim
Thank you.
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Old 08-29-2009, 02:51 PM   #9982
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As for whether or not we have cheaters in our presence: I suppose that's a risk we take. We all keep an eye on one another and hope for the best. The way I see it is that if you're cheating and winning all the time, it just has to get boring eventually. There's no challenge in cheating and winning.

Jim
Yeah, that already happened to our mini and TA class. No one wants to race in those classes anymore.
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:51 PM   #9983
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Again your lack of manners shines through

You have a lot to learn about people being ingenious and inventive especially when there is some gain. I am not interested in your little world of whatever that is. People need to realise that as long as there is a software anywhere, there will be someone ready and capable of hacking it. How are you going to scrutinise that?

And about rotors, most people didn't know a silvercan can be hacked in any way (or at leats manufacturer's intention was not to be), but read this thread back a few hundred pages and you'll learn about "cranking" and other such methods. It is the realm of people with limited imagination to think something is unbeatable.
It seems that nothing will convince you on this point. I find it strange that you should be so against brushless when you stated you don't even race Mini.

I have been racing for 12 years and have raced Mini on and off during that period, mainly concentrating on touring cars. Since the introduction of brushless this year, I have raced nothing else but Mini. I now have 2 M03's and 2 M05's which are all Hobbywing equipped and I love every minute of it.

Many other racers at our club, who have regularly raced in faster classes, are now getting into Mini as the racing is so close and above all it is fun.

It seems to me that everyone who has posted here, who has changed to this system, is singing its praises. Why knock it? Its seems pointless to me.

There will always be a place for new guys with standard equipment but in reality, anyone who wants to be competative will soon be spending money on the latest and greatest equipment anyway. Fact is, the Hobbywing is the cheapest system I have had in a car for years.
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:57 PM   #9984
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When you get racers that run electronics like one at the bottom, you can't say that this class is cheap in anyway. Just the electronics alone is well over $300. This car is from a racer that is well known and respected among the top TGP racers in Japan. And he has the skills to make use of it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD-5E4bS0k4
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:36 PM   #9985
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So the Keyence Chevalier thing and the KO PROPO Ultimate Booster essentially take the place of the usual power capacitor?

I did find it interesting that he's running an older ESC. (VFS-1) You would have thought that he'd have the latest and greatest.

Jim
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Old 08-30-2009, 03:57 AM   #9986
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Putting a brushless system in mini's is the bets thing that ever happened. The initial outlay is a bit, but if you add up all the sports tuned motors you go through a year as well as all the time cleaning, dynoing etc it is well worth it. Plus the numbers have doubled, nearly tripled @ our club since the introduction of the brushless.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:00 AM   #9987
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Putting a brushless system in mini's is the bets thing that ever happened. The initial outlay is a bit, but if you add up all the sports tuned motors you go through a year as well as all the time cleaning, dynoing etc it is well worth it. Plus the numbers have doubled, nearly tripled @ our club since the introduction of the brushless.
Good to hear .. but what would you and me know .. as we know nothing or understand anything according to one poster on here
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:38 AM   #9988
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Not sure how other racers are going with there MO5's. I am still experimenting with setup at this time.

Have others any positive setups for this chassis? It would be really good if Tamiya start releasing some hopups, before the after market crowd have cornered the sales.

Lets talk some MO5 setups.

I have tried a using a sway bar on the front which was short lived due to the lack of steering on a tight track. I have also found using the lower hole on the chassis for the camber link to give the front tyres the death groove on the inner edge of the tyre.

I am still testing springs and spring rates. Hopefully will get some good testing done this week.

Later,

Calvin.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:52 AM   #9989
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on wednesday night at Boronia we found a good setup with the m05L.
(low med grip track, technical layout)
couple of things we tried

1st setup
40wt oil 3 hole piston and fluro red springs all round
40wt oil 3 hole piston and yellow springs all round
40wt oil 3 hole piston and blue springs all round

quickest was with blue springs all round but they all felt pretty good. I think to run the same compound tyre all round it will need a split spring combination. Also the car was setup with the rear camber link on the upper hole on the hub.

tyres that worked best:

Front X Patterns Rear Ride soft
Front X Patterns Rear Spice 24's
Front X Patterns Rear Spice 28's
Front Spice 28's Rear Spice 24's


next week i want to play around with the Sweep tyres.
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:40 AM   #9990
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It seems that nothing will convince you on this point. I find it strange that you should be so against brushless when you stated you don't even race Mini.

I have been racing for 12 years and have raced Mini on and off during that period, mainly concentrating on touring cars. Since the introduction of brushless this year, I have raced nothing else but Mini. I now have 2 M03's and 2 M05's which are all Hobbywing equipped and I love every minute of it.

Many other racers at our club, who have regularly raced in faster classes, are now getting into Mini as the racing is so close and above all it is fun.

It seems to me that everyone who has posted here, who has changed to this system, is singing its praises. Why knock it? Its seems pointless to me.

There will always be a place for new guys with standard equipment but in reality, anyone who wants to be competative will soon be spending money on the latest and greatest equipment anyway. Fact is, the Hobbywing is the cheapest system I have had in a car for years.
I am not knocking anything or anyone. If you read my posts you will see I have only stated two things:

-"spec" classes are very difficult to keep spec because anything can be rigged, hacked, faked etc.
- bringing brushles to anything (not just mini) is not going to be cheaper.

These are universal problems not just to do with mini or whatever class. That's why I posted here (for those who are trying to knock me because I don't race minis).

That's all. I am not interested what the current or future developments are in mini as I don't race it so I am totally impartial to either camp. Do whatever pleases you. I don't care. But have no illusions. It's not going to get cheaper, and it's not going to be equal. We'll have to wait for the next technology quantum leap to see if that is going to solve these two problems. Bussiness as usual!
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Last edited by niznai; 08-30-2009 at 07:12 AM.
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