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Old 08-27-2009, 07:25 AM   #9916
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There's no doubt that the Hobbywing systems are a great bargain compared to most systems out there. For people who are doing highly competitive racing I am sure it's the way to go. For club racers like myself silver cans are the way to go. I can use the Tamiya esc that comes with the kit and the silver can motor. The motor lasts most of year or at least six months racing twice a month. I have always believed there is a need for a sportsman and competitive class in lot of racing classes. I think more people would be involved and many of the sportsman would move up. But, for some people when you say I have to buy a car, a radio, batteries and then a brushless system, some will say no.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:49 AM   #9917
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You have very little understanding of what was happening with Mini here in Australia. Mini was going backwards until the brushless system was introduced a year ago. The class numbers have increased dramatically to the point where it is nearly the biggest class at events.

The discussion was about the cheap Hobbywing system (which is only $130 at most places) so your comments are not well informed as you were talking about a Tekin system.

From what we have been told by racers from WA now living in the east that racing in WA is still a long way behind
WA is indeed very far behind (even when compared to Adelaide where I come from, and that was not very rosy either).

But that's as far as we can agree.

Here the cheapest you can get the EZ run is as I said, 170$. Who gives a crap what it cost over there. Add shipping and it's the same.
A better alternative is ebay.

You obviously have no understanding of what people want and having had only limited experience, and show a very limited capacity to comprehed that reality may be different than you perceive, so I don't think you can judge anything. My advice to you is to read other people's posts right here, in this very thread. Maybe you'll realise the world is a big place.

See ya.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:40 AM   #9918
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I love the idea of running a spec brushless system. It would equalize things very nicely at my club and help make the field more competitive. If there was a cheap equivalent to the Johnson 540, I'd push hard for it.

The only stumbling block I could see is long term availability. The Mabuchi/Johnson motor has been around in it's current form since at least the early 60's. It's not likely to go anywhere anytime soon as it's one of the most popular motors in the world for all sorts of applications.

Companies producing brushless systems however, are a less known quantity. They also tend to change or modify their product more frequently, making a year by year spec series a little trickier to organize.

Once a formula for brushless motors is completely stabilized, and these motors are accepted into more general usage for blowdryers and appliances, it will be a lot easier to maintain some semblence of spec in the long term.

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Old 08-27-2009, 12:07 PM   #9919
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I have read all 662 pages of this thread. yes..every single one. Never felt the need to register and speak up but somebody??? doesnt seem to know his stuff and is feeding others bogus info (not you cannon). I have been racing mini competetively (as much as mini racing gets) for some time now. If you dont believe that the ez run system is the best thing thats happened in this class then your not racing good racers.
When we raced with silver can motors (even properly broken in) the variance in speed was astounding. Some are complete dogs and some are faster than black cans. It's true. Now with the brushless system (and a 16 tooth pinion limit) all the cars go the same speed. Exactly the same speed. It makes for amazing racing.
The ez run combo is affordable, easy to use and maintenance free. Not to mention that if you are serious about racing with silver cans you will probably need to buy at least 10 to find a good 1. Go to a TCS race and see. I can guarantee that the top finishers all have "special" silver cans. I'm sure that before long Tamiya will require a brushless system in this class.
I do agree that the system is more money up front but it will be cheaper in the long run and not everybody needs one. You'll know when its time to move up. Just look at you lap time. If they are always within a few 10ths of a second and your still losing to the same guys its probably because they have better equipment.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:45 PM   #9920
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WOW...it appears my comment about brushed versus brushless opened a good debate. It would be interesting to hear Tamiya's perspective, albeit any decision would come from their ability to offer a brushless system in their car kits so racers do not have to purchase one seperately.

If this is the case, a Tamiya kit with brushless system would increase the retail price compared to the exisitng price.

Getting back to my question on breaking in a Johnson motor. Does the Johnson Red Dot motor (not-tuned) use softer brushes than the older Johnson motors. Last night I used a water dip technic to breakin the Red Dot Motor and the brushess were fully seated in 2minutes at 2.5v. While the other johnson motors I have needed 5+minutes for the brushes to fully seat.

Results...Much More Motor Test - stock red dot - RPM averaged between 16400-16600 with 2amp draw...after the water dip...RPM averaged between 17300-17410 with 2.8amp draw....thanks for the advice guys.

Not sure how these compare to others who have red dot johnson motors but IMO the process was worth it.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:39 PM   #9921
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Carl, There is no doubt that the water dip method works. It will improve the power of any silver can. But the will still be variances in motor performance.

I do a water dip in water and brasso to clean the motor after each race day , spray it with motor spray and put 1 drop of a very light oil in each bushing after every run. That has made a noticable difference for me.
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:06 PM   #9922
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how can you call brushless fiddly compared to silver cans? at the 08 novak race where 17.5 novak brushless was spec, i put a 17.5 in my car, gtb speed control, the 20t pinion (fixed gearing in a mini) and raced all weekend without touching it. this seems much less fiddly than buying 5 or more silver cans, running them in water and what ever else to try to make them faster, then either dyno each of them or have to run them on the track to see which is fastest.. seems alot more fiddly than putting a motor in your car and racing it.
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:25 PM   #9923
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Maybe we could introduce this ( http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-bru...r-p-28425.html ) as spec down here. Don't have to worry about availability since its a Tamiya product.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:06 PM   #9924
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cyanyde,

The Tamiya BL system with 12T BL motor, which looks like a rebadged HW is equivalent to a 23T brushed. This would not be accepted by our rules here in Aust to run in the Mini class.

During trials for a acceptable BL system for mini a lot of different BL motors where tested. We found that the 3300Kv motor was to fast and that the 300Kv motor was competitive with the sport tuned motor, without the difference in RPM variation. Forget 17.5 and 21.5 in a mini, as these are slower than a silver can, even when fitted with a 20 tooth pinion.

We have a set of Mini rules which have been accepted by QLD, NSW, VIC, Tassie and SA. I'm not sure about WA. So this has made running mini class the same where ever you decide to race.

The growth of the mini class has been seen at every major meet this year. Nine times out of ten, Mini is the biggest class. The biggest reason for the larger numbers, all cars are equal in top speed, due to the use of the control BL system. Now it has come back to driver skill and car setup.

At the end of the day, run what you are allowed and if you want change then vote for changes to your rules.

Good luck, Happy racing.

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Old 08-27-2009, 03:08 PM   #9925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
WA is indeed very far behind (even when compared to Adelaide where I come from, and that was not very rosy either).

But that's as far as we can agree.

Here the cheapest you can get the EZ run is as I said, 170$. Who gives a crap what it cost over there. Add shipping and it's the same.
A better alternative is ebay.

You obviously have no understanding of what people want and having had only limited experience, and show a very limited capacity to comprehed that reality may be different than you perceive, so I don't think you can judge anything. My advice to you is to read other people's posts right here, in this very thread. Maybe you'll realise the world is a big place.

See ya.
Adelaide now runs the same brushless systemn that all the eastern states use . It too has increased the interest in Mini racing apparently.

The silver can problem is the variance in quality .. simple as that. Anyone that thinks that a silver can can last a full year is obviously not aware of the massive drop off in performance with age that occurs with the brushed motors. The brushless motors just keep going with the same performance.

I have read other peoples posts and it is obvious that they also want/need a system that becomes spec class standard.

As for availability , the Hobbywing system is made by a very large manufacturer that has hit on a good formula. I dont think this system is going anywhere in the near future.

As for my lack of experience? .... been racing onroad and offroad from around 1990. Have raced all forms of electric so I think I have a fair idea of what is going on. I am not naive or inexperienced enough to think that you plug in an ESC and it is automatically calibrated. And postage from the eastern states is only $7 overnight so it still is not $170

Look if guys want to stay with silver cans well and good. We are just informing people that if they want closer fairer racing they should look at the Hobbywing style system
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:16 PM   #9926
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well I guess I had this class all wrong. I was under the impression that it was supposed to be a low cost class. Wow buying a motor that cost's more than the car go figure
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:23 PM   #9927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairy View Post
well I guess I had this class all wrong. I was under the impression that it was supposed to be a low cost class. Wow buying a motor that cost's more than the car go figure
We are talking about a whole system (ESC, motor and program card). $130 Australian for the whole system is cheap. The advantage comes in that when racing competitively you are not replacing motors all the time. Look at the comments from jeepsteve.

While you have a slightly higher initial investment, over a year it will be far cheaper if you race. If you just hack around on your driveway then just use the motor in the kit
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:16 PM   #9928
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you must not know how to take care of your motors.
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:31 PM   #9929
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MEMO: To

Tamiya/Team Atlas/ABC/Dale Epp.

One of these please, to fit an M03. The new Mini Coupe Concept. Any wheelbase, I don't care.

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Old 08-27-2009, 05:33 PM   #9930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairy View Post
you must not know how to take care of your motors.
Actually my silver cans last a long time. 3-6 months racing 2x's a week. It's the black cans that die all the time. However that still doesnt fix the problem with the variance in speed. Silver cans are not all created equally and the ez run system is the least expensive way to even the playing field.

If you went to the car dealer and bought a car and it came with 127 horsepower and some other guy bought one, paid the same money and got 167 horsies you'd be pissed. That's the same thing happening here. You cant expect to race and beat him if your even close to the same in skill.
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