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Old 08-26-2009, 08:52 PM   #9901
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A lot of people who run mini use the esc that comes with the kit.
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:53 PM   #9902
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Originally Posted by cyanyde View Post
long term or short term cost? we run brushed sport tuned here and i've already used up 4 motors this year. That is pretty much equal in cost to a hobbywing 12t motor/esc combo system that i have, which is still running well after more than a year. And not to mention the speed difference between one sport tuned to another can sometimes be obscene. Newcomers to the mini class gets turned off too when they see they have to spend money on a brushed esc. Not everyone have a brushed esc left somewhere in the pit box.

Brushless M-Chassis please....
I couldnt agree with you more on the Hobbywing brushless system. Best value for money and it ought to be considered as a spec class at least here in Malaysia. Sort of level the playing field..

The insane speed of the Tamiya Sport Tuned motor...the ones that you have witnessed at our Kota Raja race was tuned out of spec ...you would be surprised to know that a couple of the motors were reaching max RPM of 30,000!!! and for that reason alone, u could see a huge gap between one motor and another... With that insane speed, these bunch of guys could have chosen to drive in the Mini 4WD category instead...

IMO, Mini in Australia is going in the right direction with the brushless Hobbywing esc + motor, true to its original intended form to have this class as a fun category with a level playing field.

Perhaps, we ought to emulate...
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:42 AM   #9903
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If we can get enough support from the locals, why not?... But the last time I spoke to someone who's involved with race organizers, they have no intentions whatsoever to go brushless. Maybe we should bring in the ezrun combos ourselves and start organizing some spec races huh?...
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:34 AM   #9904
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It only takes less than 12 months and the Hobbywing system is cheaper by far. Replacing the other brushed motors continuously soons becaomes more expensive.

The Hobbywing system was the best thing we did for Mini in Australia. numbers have increased. racing is closer than ever. What more do you want?
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:52 AM   #9905
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It only takes less than 12 months and the Hobbywing system is cheaper by far. Replacing the other brushed motors continuously soons becaomes more expensive.

The Hobbywing system was the best thing we did for Mini in Australia. numbers have increased. racing is closer than ever. What more do you want?
Agreed. Less costly to start with and its damn easy...
Hope the Malaysian mini racers/race organisers would read this...
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:41 AM   #9906
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I have to agree that the adaptation of the Hobbywing BL Ezi-run systems have seen the numbers improve in the mini classes throughout Australia this year. We are restricted to using only the 25 or 35 Amp ezi run systems with the 13T 3000 Kv motor. These are proving to be very reliable units and I have given my system a thrashing over the last twelve months.

I could not see us changing back to brushed systems again. Although racers can use a 540 silver can or a sport tuned if they want in lieu of the BL system.

The majority have changed over, especially when a complete system is approx $130 aust.

The other thing which has seen a increase in racers competing in mini, is the use of other car bodies, such as the ABC, HPI etc. We do not allow touring car bodies though. It looks really great to see a grid of mixed body shells, rather than everyone running the same car shape.

Calvin.

Last edited by caltek1; 08-27-2009 at 03:43 AM. Reason: xtra text
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:59 AM   #9907
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Originally Posted by cyanyde View Post
If we can get enough support from the locals, why not?... But the last time I spoke to someone who's involved with race organizers, they have no intentions whatsoever to go brushless. Maybe we should bring in the ezrun combos ourselves and start organizing some spec races huh?...
people are too scared to try new technology. Lots of people at my races think brushed is cheaper for newbies, and BL gives too much advantage. I get comments like mini should just run silver can if the black can is no good. Mini is on life support at our club btw.
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:18 AM   #9908
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people are too scared to try new technology. Lots of people at my races think brushed is cheaper for newbies, and BL gives too much advantage. I get comments like mini should just run silver can if the black can is no good. Mini is on life support at our club btw.
The owner of our LHS, RC Madness in Enfield,CT is really cool about issues like this. He lets the racers decide. He also makes classes on demand so if you can get enough people with one certain car and its enough to field a race, its thrown into the mix.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:14 AM   #9909
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That is the dillema related to hobby shop associated clubs/tracks versus independent clubs. If the shop owner is open minded the associated club can benefit probbaly more than an independent club of new things. If not, then an independent club is the better choice.

But brushed is cheaper for spec classes like silver/black can than brushless. Even newcomers can buy kits that come with motor and esc and they're ready tu race, whereas brushless is a bit more fiddly plus it requires more expense on top of the kit.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:20 AM   #9910
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
That is the dillema related to hobby shop associated clubs/tracks versus independent clubs. If the shop owner is open minded the associated club can benefit probbaly more than an independent club of new things. If not, then an independent club is the better choice.

But brushed is cheaper for spec classes like silver/black can than brushless. Even newcomers can buy kits that come with motor and esc and they're ready tu race, whereas brushless is a bit more fiddly plus it requires more expense on top of the kit.

That type of comment shows the total misunderstanding of the expenses of racing. If you race regularly the brushed motor is dead in no time. Combine that with the huge variance in performance of the motors an you have a recipe for a large expense. Whereas the brushless system is an almost one off expense .. far cheaper in the intermediate term.

Brushless fiddly? .. very ill informed
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:44 AM   #9911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon View Post
That type of comment shows the total misunderstanding of the expenses of racing. If you race regularly the brushed motor is dead in no time. Combine that with the huge variance in performance of the motors an you have a recipe for a large expense. Whereas the brushless system is an almost one off expense .. far cheaper in the intermediate term.

Brushless fiddly? .. very ill informed
Wow, you can be quite thick and rude when you try, did you know that?

I race once a week if you really need to know and I run both brushed and brushless in the same class so I can compare very well.

As for information, take yours from your own experience but keep in mind that is just that, your own experience, not everybody else's. The market I think shows quite clearly what people prefer and why (as does the comment I was responding to above).

Huge variance or not, I have beaten not only once people with brushless whilst running brushed (and others have too) so who cares?

And how many times have you had to upgrade your software, or change profiles or timing or whatever else with the hotwire, or the computer or what not on your brushed system? sure, when someone else is doing the testing for you and you just show up and get the gearing and everything else readily from them, nothing is fiddly. Try to do it yourself for once.

As for expenses of racing, thank you very much, I read my bank statements to learn about that.

Good luck with your life.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:50 AM   #9912
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
Wow, you can be quite thick and rude when you try, did you know that?

I race once a week if you really need to know and I run both brushed and brushless in the same class so I can compare very well.

As for information, take yours from your own experience but keep in mind that is just that, your own experience, not everybody else's. The market I think shows quite clearly what people prefer and why (as does the comment I was responding to above).

.

Yes the market does show what it wants. In Australia, Mini racing has increased dramatically because of the introduction of the brushless system. The market speaks. If you honestly race brushed and brushless with years of experience you would know that brushless is far cheaper to run.

Good to see you race once a week but how long have you been racing.

We are talking about a budget BL ESC (total system $130) and motor where it can be set up in seconds. There is nothing fiddly about the system. As for setting up a brushless .. I do all my own settings .. it is not rocket science .

BTW .. a quote from yourself on another thread ..."I have realised that having to replace black can motors three times a season would cost as much as buying one brushless system that if would last me two seasons (at least, otherwise it is not going to pay for itself) would bring about the added benefit of reliability, consistency and low maintenance (hopefully)." Seems you understand the concept but from all accounts you have only just bought it
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:59 AM   #9913
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So someone must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed. You have posted here in the mini forum...most of us take it pretty seriously I know last year I went thru 7 black can motors at $25 a hit between July and October, and several others went into the bin cause they were plainly no good. We went to the Hobbywing brushless combo which I bought for $120 in November still have the same combo in my car and I think ive had my program card on it once. I dont c anywhere that cannon mentioned running a tekin or anything.

I am enjoying running mini so much more cause im half competitive now and its costing me way way less.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:05 AM   #9914
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Originally Posted by cannon View Post
Yes the market does show what it wants. In Australia, Mini racing has increased dramatically because of the introduction of the brushless system. The market speaks. If you honestly race brushed and brushless with years of experience you would know that brushless is far cheaper to run.

Good to see you race once a week but how long have you been racing.

We are talking about a budget BL ESC and motor where it can be set up in seconds. There is nothing fiddly about the system
My brushless system (Tekin RSpro+redline 21.5) was about 400$. This was to rid me of the need to buy black cans three times a year but mainly for the maintenance free aspect. Also because my esc (brushed) didn't have the lipo cutoff feature and other minor aspects.

And yes, I only recently started using my brushless system but I bought it a long time ago. And yes, my comment has a cavet (major) as you can see. The system has to last at least two seasons to be better money wise. Two years! That's a long time both for your average racer to think ahead and current electronics which seem these days to have a life cycle of about 6 month before they are obsolete. So you see, it's a huge gamble for me. Not sure everyone would be game to follow (actually at my track nobody yet). For me it is an experiment as explained further in my post you quote.

I think the mini class in Oz grew because everything else grew back at the time ont he back of booming economy. That and the fact that is the cheapest way to get into on-road. Drifting has grown just as much in other parts (I take it you're somewhere on the Eats coast). Just wait and we'll see how it stacks up when the financial crisis hits even further. Our club is already hunting for old (!) members.

As for low budget, the EZ run systems are still about 170AU$ in my neck of the woods which equates to a lot of silvercans, so your argument doesn't make sense (even if you have to buy a brushed system).

Really, stop trying to be patronising and appoint yourself judge of the R/C cosmos, there are plenty of people who know what they're doing and don't really need your help. And I have been racing long enough to know when the first Tamiya mini chassis (which incidentally I still own), came on the market, don't you worry.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:13 AM   #9915
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
My brushless system (Tekin RSpro+redline 21.5) was about 400$. This was to rid me of the need to buy black cans three times a year but mainly for the maintenance free aspect. Also because my esc (brushed) didn't have the lipo cutoff feature and other minor aspects.

I think the mini class in Oz grew because everything else grew back at the time. that and the fact that is the cheapest way to get into on-road. Drifting has grown just as much in other parts (I take it you're somewhere on the Eats coast). Just wait and we'll see how it stacks up when the crisis hits even further. Our club is already hunting for old (!) members.

As for low budget, the EZ run systems are still about 170AU$ in my neck of the woods which equates to a lot of silvercans, so your argument doesn't make sense (even if you have to buy a brushed system).

Really, stop trying to be patronising and appoint yourself judge of the R/C cosmos, there are plenty of people who know what they're doing and don't really need your help. And I have been racing long enough to know when the first Tamiya mini chassis (which incidentally I still own), came on the market, don't you worry.
You have very little understanding of what was happening with Mini here in Australia. Mini was going backwards until the brushless system was introduced a year ago. The class numbers have increased dramatically to the point where it is nearly the biggest class at events.

The discussion was about the cheap Hobbywing system (which is only $130 at most places) so your comments are not well informed as you were talking about a Tekin system.

From what we have been told by racers from WA now living in the east that racing in WA is still a long way behind
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