R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-25-2009, 09:07 AM   #9886
Tech Elite
 
Carl Giordano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upper Saddle RIver, NJ
Posts: 2,181
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbones View Post
I was reading up on why the TGP racers all took the rear braces off. They mentioned that this was pretty much a no-brainer mod. Was kinda bored so I did some testing with them. With the braces off, my lap average decreased by 0.2sec. Could be the effect of the decreased weight and added chassis flex?
Just getting into Mini racing - outdoors...Can someone explain what is meant by removing the rear braces? what chassis is this for?

I have a M03 short wheelbase...set-up is
- ball diff packed with tamiya antiwear grease
- TRF shocks short white/yellow springs, 60/40 oil
- Tamiya sway bars
- option alum steering knuckles
- silver can, 3200 Lipo
- KO VFS-1 speedo & servo
- Tamiya stock tires rear, s-grips front (used this combo in the main and way to much oversteer) After the main - purchased low profile Tamiya slicks

In the main, changed to the tire combo above...huge mistake...oversteer city. Had problems all day in qualifying with understeer and got desperate int he main...learning lesson.

Albeit oversteer issues in the main...Best fun I've had racing in a long

Asphalt set-ups appreciated. Dealing with a highly competitive group of Mini guys in the North East.
__________________
Mugen Racing / OS Engines / KO Propo / Byron Fuels / TOP Racing / Schuur Speed Motors / AKA / Bruckner Hobbies / Tamiya M-Chassis / Kyosho RB6
Carl Giordano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 09:30 AM   #9887
Tech Elite
 
axle182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,766
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to axle182
Default

Carl, best advice on these little things, especially with Asphalt, enjoy the understeer and work with it a bit more. Id try M grips on the front, you still want a little push, and gradually find more steering. As soon as you go past the point that the rear stays put ie it starts to loose rear grip at all, your done lol. They are a blast when you get them right, but promise, if you can creep up on the steering, youll do better. Are you guys limited to Tamiya tires? Id check into what the guys in Oz are running if not, and work from there for sure. Ive hardly run any asphalt (all indoor for me) but if your S grips are working for you on the rear, again id go with something like a M grip possibly, and id even be keen to try the CA glue trick on the outer edge to avoid the tire rolling completely. id also change to a red spring in the rear, leave the white in the front, and again, slowly creep up on more front grip.

Both my 04 and 03 (and hopefully my 05) are completely dialed on carpet with the same tires. I planted the rear, found the BEST tires for grip, and slowly mess with the front. If i go too much (like too much tire sauce on the front on carpet etc) then i go back and try something else. Its a fun test, but the best peice of advice is stick the rear at all costs.

Also i know RC-mini dont feel there is any difference when changing the length of the mini, but id get yourself a swift or better yet a civic body if they allow it, and run the mid length. Ive always found the mid to long WB a little more forgiving myself. HTH Carl
__________________
Aaron "AJ" Freind
axle182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 09:34 AM   #9888
Tech Elite
 
SerpentCT4S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,847
Trader Rating: 94 (96%+)
Send a message via AIM to SerpentCT4S
Default

I am selling my M03, check my thread!
SerpentCT4S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 10:01 AM   #9889
Tech Elite
 
Carl Giordano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upper Saddle RIver, NJ
Posts: 2,181
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Thanks Aaron,

I know what you mean about the oversteer...too much makes it impossible to drive...in the main I could barely touch the steering and the back-end would come out. Made for a long 10-minute main.

The club runs TCS rules only...I prefer it this way and glad to hear they are sticking with this set-up. Can someone suggest the best way to break-in the silver can brushes. The club requires the purchase of a spec motor (Tamiya Red Dot $15.00 - so worth it to level the playing field) Just not sure what's the best way to quickly break-in the brushes?
__________________
Mugen Racing / OS Engines / KO Propo / Byron Fuels / TOP Racing / Schuur Speed Motors / AKA / Bruckner Hobbies / Tamiya M-Chassis / Kyosho RB6
Carl Giordano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 10:17 AM   #9890
Tech Elite
 
hairy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In the Good ole' U.S.A.
Posts: 2,323
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Run it a 5vlts and dip in a cup of water for 5 minutes,then clean and repeat untill the brushess are fully seated. you can tell if they are seated by lookin in thru the vents. when complete clean and oil the bearings and you should good to go.
__________________
MERLIN RACING
"He once ran a marathon because it was on his way"
Logic is a lost art!
You are defined in life by how you respond to defeat!
hairy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:13 PM   #9891
Tech Elite
 
Carl Giordano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upper Saddle RIver, NJ
Posts: 2,181
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairy View Post
Run it a 5vlts and dip in a cup of water for 5 minutes,then clean and repeat untill the brushess are fully seated. you can tell if they are seated by lookin in thru the vents. when complete clean and oil the bearings and you should good to go.
Thanks Hairy...I've heard mixed reviews about the water dipping procedure. I'll try it on a back-up motor first.
__________________
Mugen Racing / OS Engines / KO Propo / Byron Fuels / TOP Racing / Schuur Speed Motors / AKA / Bruckner Hobbies / Tamiya M-Chassis / Kyosho RB6
Carl Giordano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:21 PM   #9892
Tech Elite
 
Goingfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,454
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano View Post
Thanks Aaron,

I know what you mean about the oversteer...too much makes it impossible to drive...in the main I could barely touch the steering and the back-end would come out. Made for a long 10-minute main.

The club runs TCS rules only...I prefer it this way and glad to hear they are sticking with this set-up. Can someone suggest the best way to break-in the silver can brushes. The club requires the purchase of a spec motor (Tamiya Red Dot $15.00 - so worth it to level the playing field) Just not sure what's the best way to quickly break-in the brushes?
If you got the red dot motor..it need no break in..just run it and oil it...
__________________
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.

AE 12R5.1,Tekin RS PRO
17.5 super stock T.O.P PHOTON , TAMIYA M05 Mini
CEFX.. High Velocity Racing Motor
Goingfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 01:22 PM   #9893
Tech Elite
 
axle182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,766
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to axle182
Default

Carl, to add more to think about, water dipping and seated brushes dont guarantee a better motor. Ive got two straight from a kit that are real performers and ill never dip them. Like GF mentioned, if its a red dot motor, then keep it well oiled, maybe some com drops to clean it regularly and smile
__________________
Aaron "AJ" Freind
axle182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 05:19 AM   #9894
Tech Elite
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Secret Underground Laboratory
Posts: 2,353
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Just to add a moment of clarity here: there's an enormous difference between a fully broken in and tuned Red Dot Johnson silver can motor and an out-of-the-box Johnson with a red dot on the positive side pip on the endbell (note: there are also white pips out there, the different colors denote the brush hardness).

Given the quoted price, I'm sure that Carl has one of the latter, not the former. Therefore Carl, your motor would indeed benefit from some sort of break-in period, either by running it with a slave motor overnight, or by giving it a brief water dip at 4 or 5 volts (if never run, that's less than a minute, or until the brushes are straight up and down and fully seated against the comm).
__________________
I've never lost.
I've just been a little bit behind when time ran out...

RED DOT MOTORS- Fastest Titan 12T and silver can 540 motors in the known galaxy!
rccardr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 09:08 AM   #9895
Tech Elite
 
Carl Giordano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upper Saddle RIver, NJ
Posts: 2,181
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Just to add a moment of clarity here: there's an enormous difference between a fully broken in and tuned Red Dot Johnson silver can motor and an out-of-the-box Johnson with a red dot on the positive side pip on the endbell (note: there are also white pips out there, the different colors denote the brush hardness).

Given the quoted price, I'm sure that Carl has one of the latter, not the former. Therefore Carl, your motor would indeed benefit from some sort of break-in period, either by running it with a slave motor overnight, or by giving it a brief water dip at 4 or 5 volts (if never run, that's less than a minute, or until the brushes are straight up and down and fully seated against the comm).
rccardr: Thanks for the clarification. I have a Tamiya spec johnson motor with a red dot on the positive side of the endbell ($15.00). IT IS NOT one of the tuned red-dot motors I've heard about ($50+). When you look into the motor it appears the brushes are shaped so only the edges touch the com...so breaking in the motor will help.

what concerns me: I've heard that TCS is considering going to a spec speedo and brushless motor because so many guys are tweeking their johnson motor and pulling +17,000 rpms from them? IMO a huge mistake,,,if you want to level the playing field at a TCS race, offer hand-out motors for the event. The great feature of a Mini Cooper is the fact that one can still use their old brushed speedo's.

Thanks to all for the input...
__________________
Mugen Racing / OS Engines / KO Propo / Byron Fuels / TOP Racing / Schuur Speed Motors / AKA / Bruckner Hobbies / Tamiya M-Chassis / Kyosho RB6
Carl Giordano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 09:32 AM   #9896
Tech Elite
 
razzor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Durban, South Africa
Posts: 2,810
Default

Must say i prefer to use s/grip radials up from with A type slicks on the rear.
It under steers a bit but much more driveable.
Alternative we run for more performance is A type slicks up from and M01 HPI Xpattern radials in the rear. Works a charm when theres serious competition.
Not sure if that is allowed in TCS though.
We run Sport Tuned black motors though.

Saw a M05 run this past weekend and was pleasantly surprised how much more planted it looked compared to the M03 lwb.
The M03 lwb with the Swift body is THE package to have locally but that looks to be under threat with the M05.
__________________
Casterracing ZX1.5R
casterracing EX-1 Pro, SP Silver Arrow
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 17.5, SP GT Pro 2.0
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 4.5 V2, Hobbywing Xerun 120SD 2.0
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 13.5, Hobbywing Xerun 120SD 2.0
razzor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 09:35 AM   #9897
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairy View Post
Run it a 5vlts and dip in a cup of water for 5 minutes,then clean and repeat untill the brushess are fully seated. you can tell if they are seated by lookin in thru the vents. when complete clean and oil the bearings and you should good to go.
Do not run a red pip motor for 5 min. when water dipping. Try 10-15 seconds first. Check it, then evaluate to see how much the brushes have seated. I water dip at 2volts and a red pip or soft brush Johnson will generally get full contact on the brushes in less than 2 min.

Dipping at 2v or less seems to give a smoother comm. Also, dipping till you get full contact across the brush or comm is adequate. It is no necessary to wear the brushes down till the face of the brush is straight and fully seated on the comm. The performance increase is negligible and only shortens the useful life of the motor. These are just personal observations and opinions formed from working with a lot of motors. Many, or even most of you may disagree, which is fine.
Granpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 03:29 PM   #9898
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: illinois
Posts: 487
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Justin Zorc
Default

I would be all for TCS to go to brushless for the mini class, at the 2008 novak touring car champs they had the novak 17.5 as the spec motor for minis, the only thing that made a difference in speed were the speed controls, and everyone was much closer in speed than with silver cans.
Justin Zorc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 04:22 PM   #9899
MD
Tech Elite
 
MD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,587
Trader Rating: 102 (100%+)
Default

One of the reasons minis are the most popular entries in the TCS, besides the chassis being inexpensive, is the lower cost for motor and esc. I know the advantages of the brushless systems, but cost should be a consideration.
MD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 08:28 PM   #9900
Tech Master
 
cyanyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KL, MY.
Posts: 1,023
Default

long term or short term cost? we run brushed sport tuned here and i've already used up 4 motors this year. That is pretty much equal in cost to a hobbywing 12t motor/esc combo system that i have, which is still running well after more than a year. And not to mention the speed difference between one sport tuned to another can sometimes be obscene. Newcomers to the mini class gets turned off too when they see they have to spend money on a brushed esc. Not everyone have a brushed esc left somewhere in the pit box.

Brushless M-Chassis please....
cyanyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tamiya Mini Cooper M-03L Hop-ups mini71 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 4 05-04-2016 11:07 AM
Tamiya Mini Cooper mach51 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 10 09-02-2011 12:08 AM
FS:TAMIYA Mini Cooper, TA 04S rthmotorsports R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 4 10-20-2007 09:37 PM
Tamiya 415 MSX and M03 Mini Cooper F/S Racer X79 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 14 12-22-2006 07:38 AM
Tamiya M01,02,03, or 04 Mini Cooper ccugolf.com R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 2 12-05-2004 08:55 PM


Tags
m03, m03r ules, m05, mini, tamiya


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:20 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0