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Old 09-30-2008, 11:48 AM   #7336
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Default Help please!

Hi Tony Gray of RC-Mini.net or anyone who can help.

Just wanted to thank RC-Mini.net for the instructions on converting a FWD Swift into a RWD Swift. Took about 4 hours to do the conversion. Ran it in our little track and it handled pretty good. Finished the night winning the B Main.

Maybe it is trying to learn a new driving style (never worked on or driven a RWD Swift before) but I am having turning and traction problems mainly. Iím using stock everything including shocks (friction dampers) included in the kit. I find that the car is not turning as well as I would like. Even with the servo endpoints set to max and D/R set to 100%, turning is best when not on throttle. Happy with no traction roll at all! Also, when coming off a corner and then gunning it to full acceleration, the car seems to skip or rattle like the wheels arenít totally gripped to the ground. My tires are pretty wore right now but I think I have S-grips in the front and M-Grips in the rear. What advice can you give me and specifically, if Iíve only got the Tamiya type tires (A, S and M grips) whatís the best combo you would recommend. We also use Nifttech traction compound here. Iím actually quite surprised that the car is running just as fast as a regular FWD Swift (unless someone is using a cheater motor Ė we run Silver can only here) on the straight away cause the motor is now running in reverse polarity.

Just wondering also, is it possible to use a 21T pinion? Havenít tried it yet cause I donít want to mess up the gears but I was told the RWD kits come with a 21T pinion. Weíre all just having fun at the club so no one has a problem with my little experiment. Incidentally, putting touring car rubber tires on the RWD Swift with traction compound make the car super fast!!!

Thanks Toni and the rest of the crew of RC-Mini.net!
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:21 PM   #7337
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Yea, I was running M-Grip Radials on all 4 corners. It was a total experiment as I had only ever run the slicks and the kit tires (are they S-Grip?) until I read somewhere that someone was running M-Grips, which I had never even really heard about. I honestly don't understand the range of tires available from Tamiya Anyway, I ordered a number of sets with firm and soft inserts (black and the blue ones from Tamiya) and glued up a set between the first and second heats. My car has NEVER been that hooked up before! It was a little tricky in that if my line was less than perfect or I came into a corner a little too hot the car traction rolled, but when I drove good lines the car carried insane corner speed. I ran 1 firm insert up front and 1 soft insert in the rear and used no traction compound.

I'm thinking I'll have to try out a swaybar up front just try to deal with the traction rolling and make the car just a little bit more forgiving. Anybody have any experience with the swaybars and their effectiveness (or not!).

Cheers,
Mike
I too tried the M-Grip experiment a few weeks ago with surprised results. There are only a couple of us who run M03's at our club and we haven't used anything but X-patterns. I used the firm inserts in the front and standard inserts out back and liked it better than X-patterns. The car did push a little entering the corner but was improved by springing up in the rear. I did notice that the outside front tire did grain up a little bit so I doubt they will wear as well as the HPI tires, but at $6/pair I'm sold on them. I used paragon on the tires as well. Inside half on front and full rear.

I also tried the 3Racing tires with unhappy results. They are about 5mm taller which gives you a huge speed advantage to the next guy, but they traction roll like crazy. They have very sharp edges on the tires which probably is the cause for the T.R. They come with inserts, but you need to double stuff them to make up for the extra 5mm. I used firm Tamiya inserts with the standard 3Racing insert in the front and a standard Tamiya and 3Racing insert in the rear.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:25 PM   #7338
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Ivan, the silver cans basically dont have timing, so they should in theory run the same backwards as forwards.

its a balance with the M04 to get steering. As jim mentioned, i used HPI x patterns on the front last time, simple reason for that is the set I have are many years old and are hard as a rock! You have to drive a RWD totally different. The FWD you take tighter lines, more direct between the corners (drive to the corner, turn towards the next corner etc) whereas the RWD, you have to 'swoop' the corner using the apex, just like normal racing lines 'which is why i love my RWD!)

Personally id spring for a set of the plastic shocks (nothing more expensive is needed) and adjust the springs in the front to be a little softer. If your already using S grips, and Niftech and still no steering, id say your suspension is way too tight, and if you have the friction dampers, they are probably binding. Another thing to try, bring more weight forward. Move your ESC etc.

With mine, i got rid of almost all steering, and it gave me a challenge to hit the marks, especially through esses etc, to keep the momentum up. usually on a M04, you want S grips on the rear, and maybe kit tires in the front. I went extreme with the hard X patterns, but im probably going back to S grip on the rear and Kit tires in the front. I use hard inserts all around on all of my tires. I used to double stuff, but now i cant be stuffed lol.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:29 PM   #7339
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Bad-Andy - What kind of surface were you rqacing on? If wasn't carpet, how do you think they would perform on carepet? Thanks.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:32 PM   #7340
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im thinking about getting a M03 for my nephew to get him started in real R/C.
and if possible can someone sum up the "must have" hop ups for running the M03 chassis for parking lot racing (asphalt)

thank you
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:46 PM   #7341
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KandyRedCol - Go to http://www.rc-mini.net. It's a great if not the best source.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:47 PM   #7342
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Bad-Andy - What kind of surface were you rqacing on? If wasn't carpet, how do you think they would perform on carepet? Thanks.
It was carpet.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:01 PM   #7343
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Bad-Andy - Thanks. I'll be racing on carpet soon. I'll have to try it.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:46 PM   #7344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
Hi Tony Gray of RC-Mini.net or anyone who can help.

Just wanted to thank RC-Mini.net for the instructions on converting a FWD Swift into a RWD Swift. Took about 4 hours to do the conversion. Ran it in our little track and it handled pretty good. Finished the night winning the B Main.

Maybe it is trying to learn a new driving style (never worked on or driven a RWD Swift before) but I am having turning and traction problems mainly. Iím using stock everything including shocks (friction dampers) included in the kit. I find that the car is not turning as well as I would like. Even with the servo endpoints set to max and D/R set to 100%, turning is best when not on throttle. Happy with no traction roll at all! Also, when coming off a corner and then gunning it to full acceleration, the car seems to skip or rattle like the wheels arenít totally gripped to the ground. My tires are pretty wore right now but I think I have S-grips in the front and M-Grips in the rear. What advice can you give me and specifically, if Iíve only got the Tamiya type tires (A, S and M grips) whatís the best combo you would recommend. We also use Nifttech traction compound here. Iím actually quite surprised that the car is running just as fast as a regular FWD Swift (unless someone is using a cheater motor Ė we run Silver can only here) on the straight away cause the motor is now running in reverse polarity.

Just wondering also, is it possible to use a 21T pinion? Havenít tried it yet cause I donít want to mess up the gears but I was told the RWD kits come with a 21T pinion. Weíre all just having fun at the club so no one has a problem with my little experiment. Incidentally, putting touring car rubber tires on the RWD Swift with traction compound make the car super fast!!!

Thanks Toni and the rest of the crew of RC-Mini.net!
Questions, questions...

OK, for a start the RWD M03 is a very finicky beast. With the motor INSIDE the wheelbase (same as an M04) you have the polar moment inside the car instead of outside like a 2WD off-road car (with the engine hanging off the rear). Hence when the thing lets go you dont really get much time to catch it.
So, tires and shocks are super critical on these cars. Basically, soft soft soft on the rear to let the thing get some grip. Thats the most important thing.
Then you can start playing with the front to get the sort of balance that you like. I'd certainly highly recommend some decent shocks though, on the RWD cars you NEED something good.

21t pinion? Wont fit. The M03 and M04 gearbox are different. Same gears but different mounting holes for the motor.
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:11 PM   #7345
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Thanks Toni and Aaron for your advice.

Yes i guess I might have to spring for some new shocks. Only thing is that the front and the rear shock heights are in extreme opposites. The front friction dampers i had to put like 7mm of spacing inside them so the total travel may only be a few mm. Also, the ball joint used to hold the bottom part of the friction damper is not totally secure in the front arms (it's being held in with a bunch of teflon tape) cause i'm using the end of the hole that was meant for a screw pin that has been cut off a few mm. On the rear side, there are no spacers used cause the shocks have to be as long as possible.

I know it's illegal but can i mount a 21T pinion if I drill another hole into the chassis? And just wondering, isn't technically a RWD with a 21T pinion faster than a 20T pinion FWD?

Thanks again.
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:06 PM   #7346
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I might have to spring for some new shocks.
Ivan! Stop! Yer killin' me!

But seriously, you can probably elongate one of the screw holes a little to allow a 21t to fit.

Remember this, if it turns out that you're beating me consistently, then we'll have to decide upon the legality of the car. Hang on, you already beat me every time. Nevermind. If you start winning against Stu, then we'll talk.

Jim
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:55 PM   #7347
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OK to stop your craziness Ivan, i have a spare set of M04 halfs, everything (i think) for the M04 chassis. Let me know if ya want to go the M04 way (unless you like tinkering! lol) I was going to build one of the M03's as a 4, but if i do decide to do that later, i can always buy more parts (addict here.... yes) Now you can put a 21 in it and have fun. I honestly thought id see a big advantage with the 04 having the 21t pinion, but the cars drive so different, the straightline speed isnt noticible, well with the silver cans anyhow The M03R, M03 (killer) and the M04 alfa with crash damage are all ready to rumble except for one painted shell. Here is hoping I can make it this sunday!
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:07 PM   #7348
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KandyRedCol - Go to http://www.rc-mini.net. It's a great if not the best source.
oh man thats great thank you!!!
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:14 PM   #7349
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hey just by the subject I really want a new RWD. I have one of the first m04's from many many many YEARS ago and I was thinking about the backwards m03.

what's the wheel base of the M04? and the M03L? Are they the same?

ALSO what are some bodys for the m04 that could still be perchased? I use to love that miata
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Old 09-30-2008, 06:57 PM   #7350
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yea they are fun we are coming up on our third and final event for 1000 lap enduro we were to late to finish it in the spring was a blast we did one in kingsville and the other at a track in strathroy the first race we lost bye straight away second one we were down laps change transmission twice but still finished .we run tcs rules but are leanent on the bodys so we run the xspress mrr2 bodys which are on the cooper wheel base .for it we run kit tires for racing to wear them in then put on for enduro .we only use jack the gripper and ca on outside bead of tires . for racing we have every available option on the cars .you know 130,00 dollar car 500.00 in options but is the best racing class going some only have the rtr cars and they are just as competitive as ours its all in the driver
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