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Old 05-01-2007, 12:43 PM   #3916
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Obviously with the Lipo it's quite a bit faster...I'd say 3-4mph...which is significant. I noticed on carpet it was a little more tippy...but not much. I was able to adjust setup to compensate...on asphalt so far it seems to be rock solid with only pluses and no drawbacks. In a 5 minute qualifier I am using 600mah! It also makes the car react a little faster being as it's lighter. Tamiya USA would be crazy not to allow this next year in TCS.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:00 PM   #3917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minidriver
Although I have yet to try any LIPO, the mini class might be a good choice for the future, as changing batttery weight at least won't upset the side to side balance of the car like a LIPO does in most touring sedans.

For those who have tried a LIPO in mini - how did it effect the front to rear balance of the car? Did you have to adjust your setup with LIPO over NiMH? My first impression would be that the car might be a bit light in the rear end with a LIPO, and as a result turn faster than expected/desired, or perhaps be loose in the rear.
Core is right on with his assessment. I did find that making sure that as many of the other electronics can be moved inside the chassis helps plant the rear too. Originally I was using an LRP speedo that wouldn't fit inside and I had it mounted on the top and the car didn't handle as well as it does now with my new Novak GTS installed inside the rear chassis. Once I get the wiring cleaned up and tucked up and running through the chassis too...that should move even more weight lower and increase the handling a little too. Not that I'll really notice much with my current driving ability but the more consistent the car performs then I can improve on my driving and not be able to blame the car any more....
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:12 PM   #3918
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BTW my comparison on the speed was with a good sport quality stick pack and not a matched IB4200. I think Lipos in mini would only level the racing even more. Now by no means am I insinuating that there is no variance between silver cans...we all know thats a joke. But Lipos would take away the abillity to buy speed and the guys that can afford 4 $75 packs every TCS race weekend would be much more evenly matched with those that can't! All you need is 1 $70 pack that will last years and years...not months!
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:16 PM   #3919
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i dont think that anone needs $$ batteries for competitve TCS racing... the Memphis race had enough minis to go down to an F-main, and i know of at least one in the A that was using 3 year old Hurricane 3300s... qual'ed 8th, finished 5th. led for a few laps even, ran in the top 3 most of the race, then caught 1 dot and went back to 4th!

i personally am against the lipo, especially when there is no weight penalty imposed.. just my input.
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:32 PM   #3920
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I would think there for sure would need to be a weight minimum.

I'm curious though...other than a weight limit, what problems do some of the other mini veterans have for lipo

BTW Wes...this is Charlie, I raced with you in Omaha a few months ago in mini. Great result for Derek!
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:58 PM   #3921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbonium
i dont think that anone needs $$ batteries for competitve TCS racing... the Memphis race had enough minis to go down to an F-main, and i know of at least one in the A that was using 3 year old Hurricane 3300s... qual'ed 8th, finished 5th. led for a few laps even, ran in the top 3 most of the race, then caught 1 dot and went back to 4th!

i personally am against the lipo, especially when there is no weight penalty imposed.. just my input.
I'm not sold on LIPOs yet either - but then I haven't tried them yet.

Nathan & I still run 3300's quite often - all are either "hand me downs" from our stock TC racing to Mini, or left over from the Nationals spec battery. Going to 3800's or 42/4300's in a mini gets you a bit more voltage, but at a signficant weight penalty of over 30 plus grams. On shorter tracks, you are better off with the 3300's, as the lighter weight is more important than top end speed. However, if you are on a course with a long straightaway sweeper combo (Aliso viejo is 125' plus the sweeper), and since we are gearing limited, those extra volts put out by the newest 3800/4200's would be a clear advantage and offset the weight penalty.

And I'm not sure that the voltage ratings on the matched packs mean a whole lot to us mini racers - I doubt a silver can in a car ever gets close to pulling the 35 amps that batteries are now matched at. Heck, put a silver can on a T35, run it at 7 volts, and pinch your fingers hard on the shaft to add a load and you still don't max out the t35 motor amp draw. For us, we would have more meaningful numbers testing a pack at an amp draw of maybe 10-15 amps - I bet a good number of NiMH batteries will show very little difference in performance at those lower loads.

And given how much of a full battery pack we really use in a 5 minute race, the average voltage numbers from a matcher (which are average voltage over the entire pack capacity) again don't mean much to us - we're interested in the numbers only for the first third or so of the pack capacity. (Back in the days of 1700's and 2000's, I used to test packs at 20 amps, and rate the batteries by how they did over their first half of discharge only, for my mini racing. The numbers on the batteries and the numbers I found did not necessary match up as far as which battery pack was best.)



By the way, what was the layout like in Memphis this year ? - one year I was there and they had what seemed to be an "endless" straight (125' or more I would guess), but other years they had smaller layouts.
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:27 PM   #3922
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lipo rules
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:32 PM   #3923
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In the end the better driver, even with lesser equiptment will most of the time win. But with even drivers and motor, more voltage will produce better top end, period. If you can pull the next guy by 5 or 10 feet on the straight, given equal driving...you know what the result will be. And I can absolutely tell the difference between a 1.15v 3300 and a 1.24v 4200. I know it only takes 1 or 2 bobbles to negate any advantage, but all things equal, I would want more voltage.


Oh, and the question earlier to the mini veterans...hopefully didn't come off wrong..I do truley value all your opinions.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:34 AM   #3924
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Quote:
By the way, what was the layout like in Memphis this year ? - one year I was there and they had what seemed to be an "endless" straight (125' or more I would guess), but other years they had smaller layouts.
Dave, I thought the track was a little smaller more technical this year. On my first lap I ran right into a pipe on a section that was straightway follow by a sweeper then another long straightway last year. They moved the track more towards the center of the parking lot and sealed it with black-top sealer. There was a couple cracks that upset the car if you weren't carefully. They did not spray it with a traction additive this year like they had in the past. The smaller more techincal track negated the gear ratio advantage I thought the M04m might have with a 21 tooth pinion.

It was a fun track and the weather couldn't have been any nicer for the event.
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:44 AM   #3925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Creations
I would think there for sure would need to be a weight minimum.

I'm curious though...other than a weight limit, what problems do some of the other mini veterans have for lipo

BTW Wes...this is Charlie, I raced with you in Omaha a few months ago in mini. Great result for Derek!
I ran the KO Grand Prix last year and Lipo's were legal. The race included a weight limit. With the limit imposed the lipo's were not as quick as the racers running nimh batts. The only stick packs I had were the 3300 spec batteries left over from the TCS Nats. The car was over .7 seconds faster per lap with nimh packs due to the higher initial peak voltage I believe. (note, this applies to low amp draw silver can racing)

I tested prior without weights added...and a very light 2100mah lipo and they seemed similar in performance to a 4200 race pack, again weight (or lack of) is the key to equal performance (ok, maybe it was a little faster )

I'm a fan of quality lipo's myself...no memory, no self-discharge and cheap chargers

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Old 05-02-2007, 03:02 PM   #3926
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I'm building up an 03R...is it just me or do the new rear uprites need many shims to remove the slop?
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:05 PM   #3927
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Hey madjack what 2100mah lipo pack did you use?
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:27 PM   #3928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtant3150c
Hey madjack what 2100mah lipo pack did you use?
It's a Thunder Power 2 cell pack for flight. I cut down a stick pack tube to size. It works ok, but it is very light. (best in an M04) The extra weight of the Orion 3200 Lipo requires less set up change and works better in an M03...for me anyway.
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Old 05-02-2007, 05:35 PM   #3929
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here you go...
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:00 PM   #3930
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Yes, for anyone thinking of Lipo, go with either the Orion or Peak 3200 Lipos! I don't think other less expensive packs are near as safe.
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