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Old 07-22-2014, 11:16 PM   #21691
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TCS legal mini question
I will be running my old M03R on medium fair grip traction surface track..
between the medium or long wheel base , I cant decide which is faster and easy set up?
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:19 AM   #21692
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Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
hi guys,

I'm planning to install the TA03 ball diff to my M05. but i got confuse between these 2 ball diff

U53070 or 53267 ?

which TA03 ball diff should i order?

thank you
The one on the right. Should say TA03 (#53267), the other should say TA01/2 or Mantaray (53070).


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Originally Posted by OVA View Post
TCS legal mini question
I will be running my old M03R on medium fair grip traction surface track..
between the medium or long wheel base , I cant decide which is faster and easy set up?
None of them is faster than the other. On the other hand one might suit your driving style better and get you faster round the track... it's all up to some testing I'm afraid. Only you can answer this question.
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Old 07-23-2014, 04:20 AM   #21693
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Allow me to share some experiences of spec Tamiya classes with a few rambling stories...

First story... about 10 years ago I introduced a Tamiya Stock touring class at my local club. I used the Tamiya Eurocup rules (the national series at the time). The rule book for TT-01s ran to over two pages. Most racers couldn't even understand what was legal or not, and then as soon as someone found an "old" silvercan from a buggy in their garage and put it in their car, they gained half-a-second a lap on everyone and the class died on the spot.

Meanwhile, the idea filtered down to one of the other local clubs. They kept the rules very simple - truly a stock TT-01 class, you weren't allowed to change any parts at first (they allowed a few reliability upgrades as time went on). The significant decision was that they insisted on using the labelled Mabuchi 540 available from Tamiya as a spare part - you couldn't even use the kit supplied motor. The cars were evenly powered and the class was a huge success.

Second story... One of my "new" local clubs runs a big indoor winter series. Mini has always been a part of it. A few years ago, the HPI Switch came on to the market, and the class was opened up to any 2wd mini. The Switch was a lot quicker around the track on a single lap. One or two other people were running the Xevo Chariot conversion and I think the ABC rear wheel drive car made an appearance too. Nobody minded. Anyway, half-way through the season I switched from an M-05 to the new Xevo Triumph car. TQ'd by the best part of a lap on its first outing. Created lots of bad blood. People seemed to have forgotten that I had TQ'd the previous round with an M-05, all of a sudden it was all about the "cheater" car...

Cue an arms race in Mini during the rest of the summer, with various cars being tested ahead of the winter series - at which point the organisers announced that the Mini class would be Tamiya FWD ONLY and that any other chassis would go in a new Mini Outlaw class.

It was one of the best decisions I have ever seen made.

Mini Outlaw basically killed itself off in the first season, the quick cars were too quick and too expensive. Mini Formula was more popular than ever and survives to this day.

There are two other key decisions that make Mini a success.

The first is the motor rule. There is a handout motor, the HPI Saturn 20, which is returned at the end of every race meeting. There is no opportunity for cheating. This motor happens to be very consistent out of the factory (sadly not the case with some other handout motors that have been tried). In fact, the motors are the normal choice at all the local clubs now, and even though people take them home, they don't cheat with them. It probably helps that the motors are slightly more powerful than a Tamiya silvercan.

The second is the tyre rule. We use the Sweep pre-mounts because they are easy to get hold of and work very well indoors and out. The tyres last a long time too. There are three compounds, all of which are allowed, because a Mini needs a choice of tyres to get it set up well.

To sum up... If I was in the position of starting a Mini class, I would make sure of the following...
  • Restrict chassis to Tamiya FWD
  • Choose a control motor - either a labelled brushed sealed can (There are too many unlabelled motors out there which opens the door to cheating, or at least finding an unfair advantage).
  • If you want to run brushless, go for a spec motor. The EZRun-type systems seem to go well (the 13T is quite fast), or spec a brushless motor with fixed timing and blinky ESC (for example the older Hobbywing XERUN motor or a Much-More motor with the fixed endbell option. The fixed gearing of a mini means that open motor choice does not work.
  • Choose a family of spec tyres - Mini's benefit from a choice of compounds. Open tyres gets expensive, fast.
  • Allow any hop-ups - but make sure the cars still run the Tamiya chassis.
  • Don't allow the jellymould TC shells - Mini is about scale looks. I would be tempted to ban non-scale rear wings as well.
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Old 07-23-2014, 04:53 AM   #21694
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I would let RWD and FWD drive in the same race.
It's about racing techniques. One is not faster than the other.

So M-03, M-05 and M-06 should be allowed. Just so people can choose what to race with.

I see that you discuss home-made hop ups.
I just made a "copy" of 3Racing hop-up, just because I could and had the parts laying around. What's wrong with that if you want it to be cheap?
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Old 07-23-2014, 06:12 AM   #21695
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@ Granpa, the following is how I wound up with the assumption that 21.5 blinky and silver can were on par (or close).

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
for the guys that have run their mini's under the new TCS rules (21.5/blinky)

what kind of setup changes should I expect to make? running it at the same track it was last run at, so track conditions shouldn't vary too much..

just curious what to expect from the car
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Originally Posted by kwkride View Post
I don't know of anyone that had to make any changes to their setup here.
The car is slower with the 21.5 blinky than it is with a silver can.
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Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
really?? i'm sure compared to a properly prepared silver can

how did you compensate for the added torque of the 21.5...I know on my table it seem to definitely spin the wheels a ton more then with the silver can I had in there
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We don't run any timing in our motors either. There's a couple of new guys that have the silver cans still. They can easily pull us on the straight, we just make up for it on the rest of the track.
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Originally Posted by kwkride View Post
Which is why we just run them with no timing now. It makes them all pretty close.
So anyways, I guess I get that we shouldn't leave it open. I'd like to use brushless rules, but don't want the guy who buys a kit to be screwed out of running when it comes with a esc/motor (my V2 did not). It'd be cool if they could run a silver can at first and upgrade as budget allowed. Some guys want absolutely nothing to do with brushed motors anymore too.. So, while the HPI Saturn motor may be a solid option, some might not go for the class simply because of that.

I think for now I will ponder on the rules suggested, and play around with motors in our test session. I have a CRC 21.5 (the local club motor), and a few silver cans. I think my buddy has a ThunderPower 21.5 too. None of us have the R1 or Killshot.

Looking around I found Hobbywing released a new QUICRUN Sensored 21.5 that appears to have a locked endbell, and is only $50.. perhaps this is the motor we're looking for..? Link: http://www.falconsekido.com/products...rushless-motor
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:06 AM   #21696
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Kevin there is nothing stopping you from allowing silvercans in the class. Have the rules set with a specific brushless motor and speed control, and allow silvercans in the class, and then put pressure on anyone who is fast, to get the brushless combo. Ours sorts itself out, our Orca combo is slightly quicker than a silvercan, so people upgrade on their own.

I can see the allure of a spec tire, but for us locally, I see no reason, due to everyone who is quick, has landed on the same tire anyhow. Allowing open tires, allows the cheap racers to run whatever they can find.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:08 AM   #21697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
I'm crippled, bored and opinionated. You should know better.
Your also a great guy who is responsible for making our mini scene such a great success!
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:24 AM   #21698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axle182 View Post
Kevin there is nothing stopping you from allowing silvercans in the class. Have the rules set with a specific brushless motor and speed control, and allow silvercans in the class, and then put pressure on anyone who is fast, to get the brushless combo. Ours sorts itself out, our Orca combo is slightly quicker than a silvercan, so people upgrade on their own.

I can see the allure of a spec tire, but for us locally, I see no reason, due to everyone who is quick, has landed on the same tire anyhow. Allowing open tires, allows the cheap racers to run whatever they can find.
What ORCA combo are you referring to?
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:36 AM   #21699
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What ORCA combo are you referring to?
I beleive its this one - http://www.muchhobby.com/shopping/pr...ae99513978566d

Jim can confirm. I wanted to find an example with a pic.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:56 AM   #21700
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Why not do a hand out battery and motor rule the the nationals???
That's what was done at my first nationals in 2006
Granted we ran 3300 stick packs and black motors
But it seemed to level the playing field..
Just my 2
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:14 AM   #21701
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Kevin, when TCS went to the present open 21.5 B/L motor rules, it was thought, by the organizers, that the 21.5 and the Silvercans were fairly close. Testing was done and the 25.5 was close, but the 21.5 was chosen cause it was, during testing, use slightly faster. They were totally unprepared for the chaos that ensued. Lap times dropped by nearly 2 sec. and an all out search for the "fastest" motor ensued. Not good and very expensive.

I'm sure that the gentlemen you quoted were sincere, but unfortunately were not aware of the true facts. This can result in some misleading posts, not entirely their fault, but based on incomplete or erroneous information.

There are any number of motors that will fill your present needs. Unfortunately, you as the organizer will have to test and make the selection. Just make sure that the motors are readily available, inexpensive, and will be around for awhile.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:07 AM   #21702
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Greetings. There's many options [outside of TCS rules,of course]."Fairplay" or not (legal) , this thread is always interesting to keep up with , which leads this TTT. I'd jus' wish I can get out and race more.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:05 AM   #21703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axle182 View Post
I beleive its this one - http://www.muchhobby.com/shopping/pr...ae99513978566d

Jim can confirm. I wanted to find an example with a pic.
Yep. That's it. It will be interesting to see if Tamiya's upcoming 2300kv motor catches on and becomes the new silver can. It would provide a great long term option.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:34 PM   #21704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Yeah, Mike, I'll admit to being a little on the compulsive side. However, the better the driver, the more anal he is about how his car is put together. Better tighten those nuts cause we can't have your nuts falling off and bouncing down the track after you.

There aren't too many conditions where the Tamiya Type A or B slicks would be the best tire to use. Lots of better choices, unless the club rules force you into those tires.

Okay no comments please about my loose nuts rolling around the track

Anyway Im alittle confused

Awhile ago before they closed down, I blew a tire at The western Maryland track called the Collesium (That was a nice place too bad they closed!) and they sold me a set of slicks but Im not sure what type they
are. They weren't hard but soft like they did not have any inserts in them.
So which were they? Im limited by the TCS rules if that helps
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:34 PM   #21705
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