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Old 07-22-2014, 01:15 PM   #21676
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It's best to keep Minis pretty much to the TCS rules and limit it to the Tamiya models, tho it's tempting to allow other cars. Decide on Silvercan or B/L, but since you're new to Minis, I'd probably go with the B/L option. And that's coming from a diehard Silvercan guy. Unless you have a knowledgeable Silvercan Guru, it's too easy to cheat. And cheating will kill your race very quickly. See if your track owner will let you run your race w/out interference. Too often they'll make you allow things just to pick up a couple of race entries. They're usually too short sighted to think in the long term.

Frankly, I think oval racing a Mini might be fun. I'd try that before asking the track to make concessions like changing the track layout just for you. Once you build up the class, you'll be dealing from a stronger position.

You start a class, by racing in front of others and having fun. It's the same as any other class.

Take your time on deciding on a tire, but when you do, make it the Spec tire and insert. Saves everyone a lot of time and money.

Best of luck to you.

Last edited by Granpa; 07-22-2014 at 01:19 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:03 PM   #21677
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
Best advice to help it grow - keep it simple and cheap. Here's the most stripped down set of rules I can think of.

- Any Tamiya M Chassis (M01-M06)
- Cheap spec BL system or silver can
- Any mini rubber tire/hop-up/body/diff (Stock gear ratios! No cheater gears!)
- 2S hardcase batteries
- Set a minimum weight

Here's why this works.

- Allowing all chassis gives freedom of choice, but it will naturally filter itself down to one or two that work.
- Speccing the motor will prevent motor wars or motor of the month crap. Keeps it cheap.
- Opening up option for hop-ups, etc, gives choice and, in most cases, the price of entry into aftermarket hop-ups, tires and bodies is WAY cheaper than Tamiya. (Although the quality of some Tamiya stuff is superior)
- Allowing all diffs shuts up the whiners and people running stock ones will find a way to lock them up anyhow. Keep stock gear ratios, though. The available "speed gears" are garbage.
- Hardcase batteries. Safety!
- Minimum weight. Helps filter out cheaters or, as they'd describe themselves, smart, crafty, innovators or "engineers". Go for something between 1220-1300g.


Jim
Jim, kinda curious about a couple of things, cause I'm assuming that these are your basic club rules.

Are most of the venues you race on carpet and if so are they permanent or just laid down before the event??????? Do you ever race on outdoor asphalt or parking lots?????

Since you've opened up the tires and "hop ups", how do you rule on the "home made" stuff?????

Why does establishing a minimum weight do much to eliminate cheating???? Your rules are so generous, that cheating is nearly impossible as long as you use the stock gears in a Tamiya Mini chassis. No criticism implied, just an observation.

Last edited by Granpa; 07-22-2014 at 02:10 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:37 PM   #21678
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Jim, kinda curious about a couple of things, cause I'm assuming that these are your basic club rules.

Are most of the venues you race on carpet and if so are they permanent or just laid down before the event??????? Do you ever race on outdoor asphalt or parking lots?????

Since you've opened up the tires and "hop ups", how do you rule on the "home made" stuff?????

Why does establishing a minimum weight do much to eliminate cheating???? Your rules are so generous, that cheating is nearly impossible as long as you use the stock gears in a Tamiya Mini chassis. No criticism implied, just an observation.
Hey Bob, these are, in essence, the rules we play by at my club, except for the silver can thing. There are two clubs in town - one with permanent carpet and the other is setup for every race. I haven't raced outdoors in a long time. It's very hard to find and maintain level asphalt with the harsh winters we get.

Opening up tires and hop-ups isn't really problematic if you have clauses like "race directors discretion" or "spirit of the rules" in the general section of the rule book. These and the fact that most people can't be bothered are pretty much all the policing we need. There are a few who've done some serious messing around and either we notice it, or they eventually reveal what they've done - pride and honesty are helpful tools. The bottom line is there's really nothing at stake, except the very brief high of winning a club race and, if you're good at it, a cheap plaque at the end of the season.

Tires pretty much sort themselves out. The 55d tires are too slow on the straights and the Ride inch ups don't provide that great of an advantage vs their availability. I've heard of some splicing up their own tires in the past, but there is loads of great stuff available in the aftermarket now. Hop-ups work the same way. Basically, everyone knows what the car should look like and if it looks different, or is obviously faster, something's up.

You're pretty much dead on when you say cheating is difficult to do. If you allow all Tamiya hop-ups or their aftermarket equivalents, plus allow whatever differential, what's left? As long as it looks right, is geared right and isn't underweight, it's probably okay. I suppose it really comes down to motors at that point. We've talked about that before. The only protection for that is vigilance and the angry guy in second place.

In the long run, the fastest and best drivers win, because they're the fastest and the best and don't need cheats to compensate for lack of skill.

Jim

ps: One of my favourite things about the guys that are truly fast in mini is the lack of blingy crap on their cars. It's almost axiomatic that the more blue you see on a car, the less likely it is you'll see it in the winner's circle.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:39 PM   #21679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Jim, kinda curious about a couple of things, cause I'm assuming that these are your basic club rules.

Are most of the venues you race on carpet and if so are they permanent or just laid down before the event??????? Do you ever race on outdoor asphalt or parking lots?????

Since you've opened up the tires and "hop ups", how do you rule on the "home made" stuff?????

Why does establishing a minimum weight do much to eliminate cheating???? Your rules are so generous, that cheating is nearly impossible as long as you use the stock gears in a Tamiya Mini chassis. No criticism implied, just an observation.
GP, I can help, although im sure Jim is probably writing a reply lol.

These rules are for the large race series for Western Canada with the exception of the open tires, and have worked very well. Its 99% Carpet, mainly due to onroad not being very popular in the summer and the carpet racing is all during our long winters. An Asphalt race was using the same quidelines just this past weekend.

By allowing any mini tire at club races, anyone was free to use up or try other brands. Ive tried many other brands myself, I found the 3 racing radials worked well also, but nothing had an advantage, or was out of reach of anyone. Going open tires also eleviates the issue of availability too. Best part is on all of our carpet tracks, the Tamiya S grip is the must have tire, and is legal to race at the large race series, so it works.

As for the hop ups, this was debated for a while, but after a few years now, there hasnt been any issues regarding open hop ups. And should a major advantage be found Im sure it could be dealt with. No one is building any special parts themselves, because all racers, from the top of the A mainers, to the bottom, still realise this is mini. Not only would you be hurting the class, you would be shunned by your fellow racer also.

Fact is Tamiya only racing is expensive. Going with aftermarket hopups has cut down the costs. No one has found any significant advantage at all, and over the past few years, the same names are finishing in the same positions at the races.

I havent done a tonne of asphalt racing, so I cant compare, but our carpet racing has really plateaued as far as setups and speed are concerned, hell we have one guy whol races with a large flag hanging from his car.... and wins. Its now down to who has the cleanest run. Everyone has been sharing the setup advice, and at the local clubs, you will see the fast guys setting up anyones cars for them. Best part about this is id say a large amount of us race our mini, sit it on a shelf for a few months, and take it out again for the next big race, and its always competitive.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:41 PM   #21680
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see I should have known he would get his response in before mine too....
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:07 PM   #21681
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A common mistake is that some don't realize is that the angle between the rod and the servo arm should be 90 degrees. Too often people think the center point is when the servo arm is at 90 degrees to the servo case. You need to remove and replace the servo arm or servo saver so that it is 90 degrees to the rod and not to the servo case. This means that the servo arm/servo saver will be forward of the center line of the servo case. If the servo arm/servo saver is properly positioned on the servo, the rod will need to be as much as 10mm or more shorter. This is something I see often and is not just an error a newbie makes. I've seen this on cars of experienced Mini racers.
oh... that's every single one of my cars.... because I build to the manual..

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Old 07-22-2014, 05:16 PM   #21682
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oh... that's every single one of my cars.... because I build to the manual..

The only M05 manual I have comes from an older kit and it shows the servo arm at 90 to the case. Odd that your picture shows a servo arm at 90 to the case and a servo saver installed differently. How screwed up is that??????

Point being that in this case the manual is wrong.
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Old 07-22-2014, 05:23 PM   #21683
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see I should have known he would get his response in before mine too....
I'm crippled, bored and opinionated. You should know better.
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:57 PM   #21684
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Its something I wondered about. All mechanical theory and practice says the steering link should be straight. Otherwise you would get uneven leverage left and right.
But I just went along with what my manual said.
Have looked at my manual (basic M05) dads manual (M05 Pro Gold) and the Ver2. manual of the tamiya site, all show the 90* servo horn and angled rod.

Well be changing mine and see how it goes.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:26 PM   #21685
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Lesson here. They all work, just some better than others.

I'll stick to my CliffNotes.

And I would guess that if you use the 'inner hole' on the steering rack that you would probably need to decrease the Anglesey the servo horn to about 2.5• is that addressed in the manual?
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:36 PM   #21686
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Thanks for the replies guys. I agree with most of what was said. We are have 3 cars to start playing around with, to try to gain interest locally.

It was a good idea, and I don't mind running them on the oval to get it going at all. Some tracks, depending on the day, break down the oval and put in a road course with jumps for the short course guys, what I was saying is we could run that same layout minus the jumps to make it easier, since there's a track breakdown anyway in the race program. For the oval tracks that only do oval, we could run them in oval, no big deal to me. I just like the looks of the class.

So, my immediate thought on basic rules would be as close to TCS as allowable, but with some looseness for availability issues..

- Aftermarket parts would be open to any manufacturer with an emphasis on TCS compliance. i.e. strongly suggest sticking with Tamiya upgrades in the event anyone would like to travel to a TCS event, but 3Racing, YeahRacing, GPM, etc equivalent are OK for club racing. The strict TCS rules such as stock gearing will remain in place, no cheater gears, chassis modifications/hacking, etc. Ball diff or gear diff allowed.

-Body, I'd like to say stick with Tamiya bodies, but opening it up to correct mini models from Colt, Pandora, ABC, HPI, and others may really boost interest. So maybe be lax on that area as well, but again, encourage TCS compliance if folks plan to travel..

-Tires. I'd like to go to a spec tire, but it will depend what works. Some testing will be in order, I think. Limiting to Tamiya tires only I think would be a good option at least. Honestly, I'm new to these cars.. so I have no clue where to start for carpet racing, other than S-Grips? I think Kinetics allows the TCS approved tires and the kit tires.

- Battery, any 2S lipo that fits the car without chassis modification. So M05 has to use a round pack, V2 can use square, etc.. Doubt we need a C limit, but if locals deem they want it, we'll go with 50-60c. Shortys are ok?

- Motor.. I'm thinking allowing silver cans as well as 21.5 blinky in the same race. I believe I read they were about equal? Silver cans are slightly faster in the straight, and 21.5 has more torque for faster corner navigation? Toss up? You guys tell me.. Either way, I don't see us "spec'ing" a 21.5. CRC runs a in-house club motor that most guys around here run, it's not ROAR legal.. but it has kept their 1/12 cars all on a pretty even scale. That could be a good motor to stick with.. I think it's only $50-60 too. We'll also recommend the Hobbywing Justock to keep the combo around $100-120. Opinions on this?

- Minimum weight, whatever TCS is?

Did I miss anything?
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:47 PM   #21687
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Thanks for the replies guys. I agree with most of what was said. We are have 3 cars to start playing around with, to try to gain interest locally.

- Motor.. I'm thinking allowing silver cans as well as 21.5 blinky in the same race. I believe I read they were about equal? Silver cans are slightly faster in the straight, and 21.5 has more torque for faster corner navigation? Toss up? You guys tell me.. Either way, I don't see us "spec'ing" a 21.5. CRC runs a in-house club motor that most guys around here run, it's not ROAR legal.. but it has kept their 1/12 cars all on a pretty even scale. That could be a good motor to stick with.. I think it's only $50-60 too. We'll also recommend the Hobbywing Justock to keep the combo around $100-120. Opinions on this?

- Minimum weight, whatever TCS is?

Did I miss anything?
Yeah, you did. A 21.5 and a Silvercan are nowhere near the same speed. They are if you back the timing down, but it's hard to tell how much as each company has their own timing scale. For example my R1 at 20 degrees of advance is about the same speed as a good Silvercan. My Killshot needs over 60 to run at the same speed. This is a real dilemma and should be avoided at all costs. Pick one and just go with that and it really doesn't matter much what you pick------save you a real headache later.

TCS min wt--1300gms.
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:07 PM   #21688
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hi guys,

I'm planning to install the TA03 ball diff to my M05. but i got confuse between these 2 ball diff

U53070 or 53267 ?

which TA03 ball diff should i order?

thank you
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Tamiya mini cooper-ball-diff-u53070.jpg   Tamiya mini cooper-ball-diff-53267.jpg  
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:57 PM   #21689
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The only M05 manual I have comes from an older kit and it shows the servo arm at 90 to the case. Odd that your picture shows a servo arm at 90 to the case and a servo saver installed differently. How screwed up is that??????

Point being that in this case the manual is wrong.
One is for M05v2 (90 deg) other one is TRF417V5 (85 deg)
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:25 PM   #21690
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Yeah, you did. A 21.5 and a Silvercan are nowhere near the same speed. They are if you back the timing down, but it's hard to tell how much as each company has their own timing scale. For example my R1 at 20 degrees of advance is about the same speed as a good Silvercan. My Killshot needs over 60 to run at the same speed. This is a real dilemma and should be avoided at all costs. Pick one and just go with that and it really doesn't matter much what you pick------save you a real headache later.

TCS min wt--1300gms.
+1! Don't get into open motor wars!

Think about the rest, too. Save some money!
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