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Old 06-11-2014, 11:20 PM   #21226
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
The reason I gave the 1150 bearing number is that is what is listed in the manual. I have no way of knowing if that's antiquated or truth because there isn't anything printed on the bags.

Here's a pic of what I was talking about. I think I see why they don't fit.



Where the axle meets the bearing appears to be a millimeter or two longer than the stock one. Is the V2 kit somehow different? I just can't see that.
The axle length does not make a difference.

What you need to measure is from the bearing shoulder on the axle to the driveshaft pin at the diff outdrive end. That is the critical dimension here, and in your picture there is indeed a difference of about a mm between the separate dogbone and the driveshaft (articulated) dogbone, but you need the whole distance to where the bearing sits.

On the other hand, Granpa was pointing out you need the smaller bearings (1050). This is indeed required if you use alloy uprights (hub carriers), Tamiya item 54177.

Not sure what bearings you have but perhaps you need to measure their thickness and let us know. The 1050 used in my car are 4mm. Or maybe you didn't seat them properly all the way in.
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Last edited by niznai; 06-11-2014 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:00 AM   #21227
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I just made a new one Jim. I used a syringe to put some in the bottom of one half. I then put the cross piece in. I then filled the small holes in and a bit more on top of the cross. When I put the top half on there were no leaks or oil coming out. The 500k doesn't need to be full. It is so thick it slows down the gears and give good action. The last one I filled with a knife fully and oil was everywhere. I hate when it gets on the outside and get in the drivetrain. So I like the syringe method now.
That's what I ended up doing. Just followed the instructions. Last time I built it, I filled it right up. Made a mess! Thanks, Cal.


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Originally Posted by caltek1 View Post
Jim,

I only use 300K oil in my oil gear diffs and fill a little above the cross. I used to use 500k but found it slowed the steering down and added wear to the 3Racing oil diff outdrives.

Using the weights your suggesting will give use less steering and start behaving like a spool. Not what you want.

The best oil gear diff I have found is the Top racing oil gear diff for the Sabre FWD car. These are what most are using now. They are less maintenance than the 3Racing product and only require extra spacers to fit inside the MO5, to reduce sideways movement. It also uses blades like the 3racing oil gear diff.

Top Racing oil gear diff part number is PO-SDT114

Not sure if that helps,

Regards,

Calvin.
Of course it helps! Our fastest guys are running diffs that are just shy of spools and compensating for the steering loss in other ways, like suspension tuning. I may look into the Top Racing diff when it's time to replace this one. Shouldn't be long. The outdrives are chipped up and the fluid I cleaned out of it was inky black. Surprising, considering that it's relatively low mileage compared to most of my stuff.

Thanks, other Cal!
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:38 AM   #21228
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as I was taking old dampers apart to rebuild... I noticed that two "damper manuals" have a different O-ring placement in the cylinder end.

#42273 has the shaft guide then the O-ring then the rod guide.

#54000 has the O-ring, then the shaft guide and then the rod guide.



why the change? Which way is better?

Also the shaft guide has a little groove in it. Is there a problem with me having it face the O-Ring side?

Compare to some of my TRF manuals
The TRF418 manual Step 20 has groove facing O-ring.
The TRF417v5 has no shaft guide, but two O-rings instead.
The TRF417x has shaft guide with groove facing away from O-ring.

Now I'm totally

hoping it's much ado about nothing.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:42 PM   #21229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
The reason I gave the 1150 bearing number is that is what is listed in the manual. I have no way of knowing if that's antiquated or truth because there isn't anything printed on the bags.

Here's a pic of what I was talking about. I think I see why they don't fit.

Where the axle meets the bearing appears to be a millimeter or two longer than the stock one. Is the V2 kit somehow different? I just can't see that.
This is the fitment w/ the M05 Ball Diff.

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Old 06-12-2014, 01:45 PM   #21230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torg View Post
as I was taking old dampers apart to rebuild... I noticed that two "damper manuals" have a different O-ring placement in the cylinder end.

#42273 has the shaft guide then the O-ring then the rod guide.

#54000 has the O-ring, then the shaft guide and then the rod guide.



why the change? Which way is better?

Also the shaft guide has a little groove in it. Is there a problem with me having it face the O-Ring side?

Compare to some of my TRF manuals
The TRF418 manual Step 20 has groove facing O-ring.
The TRF417v5 has no shaft guide, but two O-rings instead.
The TRF417x has shaft guide with groove facing away from O-ring.

Now I'm totally

hoping it's much ado about nothing.
Torg, it doesn't seem to be a big deal. I've tried all 3 methods, and could not tell you which was which. Presently, I'm doing all my shocks like the #54000 only cause it's the easiest. It's more important to build the shocks the same side to side.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:56 PM   #21231
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Originally Posted by EricP View Post
This is the fitment w/ the M05 Ball Diff.

Thanks for the pic. I found the problem, both of my steering blocks had a 'burr' on the inside bearing seat that wasn't allowing the bearing to fully seat. I got a little dremeling in there and it's working like a charm.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

I guess one other question, does anyone actually use the urethane bushing at the top of the TRF shock bladders? I can't think of a time when I wouldn't want my bladders to flex. Seems a little too prohibitive, but that's what the kits says to do.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:33 PM   #21232
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
Thanks for the pic. I found the problem, both of my steering blocks had a 'burr' on the inside bearing seat that wasn't allowing the bearing to fully seat. I got a little dremeling in there and it's working like a charm.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

I guess one other question, does anyone actually use the urethane bushing at the top of the TRF shock bladders? I can't think of a time when I wouldn't want my bladders to flex. Seems a little too prohibitive, but that's what the kits says to do.
That'll do it...

I don't. I believe it changes the characteristics of the dampening by not allowing the bladder to deform under compression
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:39 PM   #21233
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That'll do it...

I don't. I believe it changes the characteristics of the dampening by not allowing the bladder to deform under compression
Thanks Eric, Any default type of setup to these shocks for asphalt? (2 or 3 hole, oil weight) They look to be a very nice shock, although the bladders feel a little stiff, but what do I know, I'm just a touring car guy
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:29 PM   #21234
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Thanks Eric, Any default type of setup to these shocks for asphalt? (2 or 3 hole, oil weight) They look to be a very nice shock, although the bladders feel a little stiff, but what do I know, I'm just a touring car guy
What allows the shock shaft to move up into the shock body is the flexing of the bladder and the compression of the red sponge bushing. If that did not occur, the shaft would barely move at all. Shock action is determined by the bladder, oil, # and size of the piston holes, whether the red sponge is used, assembly technique among others.

Whether the red sponge is used depends a lot on the track surface and grip levels. It's a useful tool along with the amount of rebound you build into your shock.

Since I run mainly on low, to at best, medium grip outdoor asphalt, the default shock is a zero rebound, 3 hole piston, 40wt Losi oil, 56mm shock. For the new v2 kit, I'd start with a 57mm or so shock cause you have the droop screw.

You're wise to forget a lot of the TC chassis tuning parameters cause so much of what makes a Mini work is counterintuitive.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:46 PM   #21235
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I'm a little ways into assembling the M-05 Ver.II. I have the main chassis pieces and gearbox assembled and I'm just starting on the lower control arms. I've noticed (and measured) a few things.

- The old plastic motor-plate and the new one are the same, though I'm not sure of the fitment, as the whole thing is moved to the right 3mm. Maybe Tamiya just hasn't got the molds made for a new one yet. The alloy motor plate differ in that the motor side of the new one is recessed 1.5mm and the spur gear axle mounting point is 1.5mm shorter.

- Adding reinforcement to the droop screw mounting point is really easy. Just be really careful if you're cutting up pieces of razor blade! I've got a technique worked out that's pretty safe and very cheap. If you want to know how, PM me.

- I'm guessing the earliest aftermarket hop-ups will be lower control arms, rear droop attachments for lower arms, some kind of protection for droop screw touch points and updated motor plates. Nothing else has really changed. I really wish someone in the aftermarket would come up with their own version of the Tamiya lightweight alloy battery holder.They're over $30 locally. That's just silly.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:50 PM   #21236
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
What allows the shock shaft to move up into the shock body is the flexing of the bladder and the compression of the red sponge bushing. If that did not occur, the shaft would barely move at all. Shock action is determined by the bladder, oil, # and size of the piston holes, whether the red sponge is used, assembly technique among others.

Whether the red sponge is used depends a lot on the track surface and grip levels. It's a useful tool along with the amount of rebound you build into your shock.

Since I run mainly on low, to at best, medium grip outdoor asphalt, the default shock is a zero rebound, 3 hole piston, 40wt Losi oil, 56mm shock. For the new v2 kit, I'd start with a 57mm or so shock cause you have the droop screw.

You're wise to forget a lot of the TC chassis tuning parameters cause so much of what makes a Mini work is counterintuitive.
Thanks Granpa, great info there. Are you measuring the shocks from the center of the eyelets or total length?

Also noticing quite a bit of "slop" in the inner and outer pins, is it wise to shim as much of that our as possible or is it part of the "mini thing"?
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:41 PM   #21237
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Thanks Granpa, great info there. Are you measuring the shocks from the center of the eyelets or total length?

Also noticing quite a bit of "slop" in the inner and outer pins, is it wise to shim as much of that our as possible or is it part of the "mini thing"?
The shocks are measured outside to outside. Sorry, but I forgot to note that if you're using the option rear shock tower, you may have to lengthen the rear shocks a bit. I think the rear shocks on my 05 are 58mm. Also, I specified Losi oil cause Associated oil runs a bit thicker.

I didn't say anything about rebound, but basically, the more rebound you have, the quicker and the stiffer the shock action becomes as the shock compresses. Also, with new bladders it's almost impossible to build a zero rebound shock. I resort to drilling a #60 in the plastic cap with new bladders. You can see how on a hi-grip surface or a very technical layout, this could be very useful.

A little bit of "slop" is a Mini thing and trying to shim out all the slop is very detrimental. There are places to shim and places you shouldn't. Ball ends and axles, sometimes. Hinge pins, usually not. TC guys tend to want to shim everything so their Mini is as tight as a TC. This generally will give you a sensitive, darty Mini that's really tough to drive.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:51 PM   #21238
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
The shocks are measured outside to outside. Sorry, but I forgot to note that if you're using the option rear shock tower, you may have to lengthen the rear shocks a bit. I think the rear shocks on my 05 are 58mm. Also, I specified Losi oil cause Associated oil runs a bit thicker.

I didn't say anything about rebound, but basically, the more rebound you have, the quicker and the stiffer the shock action becomes as the shock compresses. Also, with new bladders it's almost impossible to build a zero rebound shock. I resort to drilling a #60 in the plastic cap with new bladders. You can see how on a hi-grip surface or a very technical layout, this could be very useful.

A little bit of "slop" is a Mini thing and trying to shim out all the slop is very detrimental. There are places to shim and places you shouldn't. Ball ends and axles, sometimes. Hinge pins, usually not. TC guys tend to want to shim everything so their Mini is as tight as a TC. This generally will give you a sensitive, darty Mini that's really tough to drive.
Perfect, thank you very much.

I did notice, even with the "slop" at the pins, it didn't seem to carry over to the steering side of things. In my touring car (TC6.2) if I had play in the front arms, it would make the steering have some play as well. I don't see that in the mini at all. For such an inexpensive little car, they are engineered extremely well. Go Tamiya!

Thanks again and happy racing!
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:09 AM   #21239
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
I'm a little ways into assembling the M-05 Ver.II. I have the main chassis pieces and gearbox assembled and I'm just starting on the lower control arms. I've noticed (and measured) a few things.

- The old plastic motor-plate and the new one are the same, though I'm not sure of the fitment, as the whole thing is moved to the right 3mm. Maybe Tamiya just hasn't got the molds made for a new one yet. The alloy motor plate differ in that the motor side of the new one is recessed 1.5mm and the spur gear axle mounting point is 1.5mm shorter.

- Adding reinforcement to the droop screw mounting point is really easy. Just be really careful if you're cutting up pieces of razor blade! I've got a technique worked out that's pretty safe and very cheap. If you want to know how, PM me.

- I'm guessing the earliest aftermarket hop-ups will be lower control arms, rear droop attachments for lower arms, some kind of protection for droop screw touch points and updated motor plates. Nothing else has really changed. I really wish someone in the aftermarket would come up with their own version of the Tamiya lightweight alloy battery holder.They're over $30 locally. That's just silly.
Hi Jim,
Im thinking of getting a V2, too.
Do you know, when stella will restock?
Do they take pre-orders via email?
Ive not ordered from them by now, I think you know them for a while.

Good luck for your assembly,
Matthias
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:23 AM   #21240
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Default set up help again

I am still running about half a sec behind the fast guy on our out door parking lot track. He is faster on the corners, but I am faster on the straight. We are both using thee same motor, kill shot, same battery, venom, same tires, type a slicks. I am long wheelbase with a 06 cooper body, he is med with the JCW cooper body. I have the complete aluminum steering upgrade, tamiya shocks, m05 ball diff, carbon fiber front shock tower, high torque servo saver, futaba s9551 low profile servo, and full bearings of course. Please take a check my setup and let me know if you see anything that is costing me time in the corners. Track is a good sized, about 110x60 PVC, one long straight and mostly 180 and 90 degree corners, treated with soda\sugar traction compound. The last race I did notice I had quite a bit of chassis lean, I had to trim the front of the body to keep it from rubbing on the track.
Front
Losi 40wt shock oil, 3 piston, mounted to middle hole, floro red springs, 5mm ride height, 2 deg camber with the setting upper arms on the inside top hole, 1 deg toe out.
Rear
40wt shock oil, 3 hole piston, stock rear shock mount, 4.5 ride height, floro red springs, 2 deg camber, 1.5 deg aluminum toe in carrier, upper arms on lower inside hole.
I have a complete set of springs, floor and regular, and white springs that came with my v1 m05 pro, and sway bars. If I need the carbon fiber rear mount I will get it, this is my favorite class to race.

Last edited by ncpantherfan; 06-13-2014 at 12:36 AM.
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