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Old 04-20-2014, 09:19 AM   #20851
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I have to agree that many teams will just up and quit the series if that happens
My son runs a 05 but I run a 03 and I won't be buying another chassis just to
run the TCS. This whole upgrade to a brushless system for the mini's fiasco has
but a bad taste in the mouth of many of the local teams and I afraid that I have
to agree that this will be the pervibal nail in the coffin for many with the TCS
Really sad. I know that they are in business to sell cars, but seems like they're
making many bad business decisions lately
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:26 AM   #20852
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Originally Posted by KA2AEV View Post
I have to agree that many teams will just up and quit the series if that happens
My son runs a 05 but I run a 03 and I won't be buying another chassis just to
run the TCS. This whole upgrade to a brushless system for the mini's fiasco has
but a bad taste in the mouth of many of the local teams and I afraid that I have
to agree that this will be the pervibal nail in the coffin for many with the TCS
Really sad. I know that they are in business to sell cars, but seems like they're
making many bad business decisions lately
Many people I know agree with you. In the GT3 class you can three different motor types, but in Mini you have to run a 21.5. My friends and I don't understand the logic behind that.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:41 AM   #20853
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It's not silly if one remembers that Tamiya is in business to sell cars; that's the reason they sponsor the series.
I agree. My thought is natural attrition would eventually wipe out the old model. Well, that and introducing a superior product to replace it with.

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Many people I know agree with you. In the GT3 class you can three different motor types, but in Mini you have to run a 21.5. My friends and I don't understand the logic behind that.
Spec racing. What's there to understand? A bunch of cars are built to a formula (like real race cars) and drivers compete to see who is best. Anyway, I'm curious: 3 motor types? Brushed, brushless and ???
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:53 AM   #20854
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For some reason, there is more "racket" from the gear train with a brushless motor than with the old Silvercans. Some of this comes from the motor itself and does not have anything to do with the gear mesh. Logic would tell you that the the gear mesh could not change with just a change of motors. In your situation, you could have "worn" gears or a bad pinion if the noise is excessive.

Heads up for all you TCS racers. It looks like this will be the last year the M03 will be a legal chassis for TCS racing. Don't shoot the messenger, but this is according to FMW. I'm really sorry to see this cause the M03 is the "best" chassis IMHO.
Agreed - Logic would indicate so. However when I look at the gear mesh through on my M 03 there is perhaps 0.1 or 0.2 mm difference in the mesh and subsequent lash. This does not make sense.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:16 AM   #20855
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No more M03? That's just silly. Any logic provided for the decision? M05 vII is probably going to be the nail in the coffin anyhow.
No, not really. Let's face it, TCS operates as a fiefdom. Logic has nothing to do with it. But, to be fair, very few of us are privy to many of the considerations that go into these decisions or rulings. What may seem idiotic at times, may be perfectly logical from a slightly different perspective.

My opinion of the Version 2 is less than enthusiastic. The basic flaw in the layout of the M05 remain for the tracks I run on. My guess is that after a short run, we'll be seeing the M07. My own preferences would be for a layout something like the FF03 or the X-evo. The X-evo was a terrific car design, but it's execution was not the best in the details.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:33 AM   #20856
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It would be very sad days to see the Mini M03 disqualified in next year TCS
Drove the M04 a few years back & it was disqualified as well too.
After almost twenty years of racing Mini .....May have to take a break if the info on M03 is correct
Sure got my moneys worth driving the M03 over the years!!
Do like the Brush less motors though.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:53 AM   #20857
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I think Grandpa is right. Logic as we see it has nothing to do with the TCS rules. Fiefdom is a great way to describe it. In GT3 you can run almost any Tamiya tub chassis that exists. "Any TUB-type chassis XV-01, TT-01, TT-02, TA-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, FF-03 and TB-03, TB-04 variants." But, they may eliminate the M03. Why would they continue to put more restrictions on what has been the most popular class? Obviously, growing participation in then TCS series is not a goal.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:46 PM   #20858
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My guess is that after a short run, we'll be seeing the M07.
I've got ideas about the perfect M07. The simplicity of the M03 - all the screws match and their aren't a million of them - with the low CG of the M05. Not a as good a design for selling hop ups, though.
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:09 PM   #20859
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Although it sucks that the time of the m03 is drawing to a close you all knew it was coming. The fact that you couldn't use them if you went to Japan should have been the clear signal it wasn't far off. Its also the nature of Tamiya. Eventually the older model does get phased out. Yes I am an 05 driver but it was for this reason I chose to start with an 05 knowing the nature of Tamiya. May as well start tackling the challenges of the 05 early on. I know the brushless changes have probably exasurbated the chassis' phase out frustration but in the end the sky isn't falling guys. Its just how it goes.

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Old 04-20-2014, 04:40 PM   #20860
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Although it sucks that the time of the m03 is drawing to a close you all knew it was coming. The fact that you couldn't use them if you went to Japan should have been the clear signal it wasn't far off. Its also the nature of Tamiya. Eventually the older model does get phased out. Yes I am an 05 driver but it was for this reason I chose to start with an 05 knowing the nature of Tamiya. May as well start tackling the challenges of the 05 early on. I know the brushless changes have probably exasurbated the chassis' phase out frustration but in the end the sky isn't falling guys. Its just how it goes.

Jason

This may not make much sense to you cause you're a relative newcomer to Mini racing. My best friend passed away a number of years ago from cancer. Since I knew the nature of the cancer he had, I knew his days were numbered. That made me dread the day he would go, and make me lament his passing.

Sorta like the phasing out of the 03. Not nearly as extreme, but it really is like losing an old friend. It's kept me company at hundreds of races and entertained for many evening repair and build "sessions". I will regret not racing it anymore.

You're right, it's time to start working with the 05.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:42 AM   #20861
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Originally Posted by MD View Post
In GT3 you can run almost any Tamiya tub chassis that exists. "Any TUB-type chassis XV-01, TT-01, TT-02, TA-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, FF-03 and TB-03, TB-04 variants."
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...in the end the sky isn't falling guys.
I wouldn't subscribe to any to any doom and gloom, just a sense of puzzlement. If GT3 is open to such a variety of chassis no longer supported by the manufacturer, why wouldn't the same apply here? The net result will be the same, whether the 03 were banned or not - we're all still going to run out and buy the new car. Okay, I'm going to run out and buy the new car, partly because I like shiny new things and partly because my stick packs are dying and it's time for new batteries anyway.

I'm certain the new car won't address what annoys me most about the M05, but maybe the benefits of lower CG and narrowing the mass will sweeten the deal. I'll still fall back to my 03 when the 05 makes me angry, though.

Looks like Ver.II is going to be at the Shizuoka Hobby Show in mid-May.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:55 AM   #20862
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I know that many of you will be disappointed if the M03 is not allowed in the TCS races next year. I understand you want to keep running what you are comfortable with. I'm just wondering, is the M03 still popular at the track where you're running?

Ours is a decent mix of M05s and M06s with the occasional M03 thrown in.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:51 AM   #20863
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I know that many of you will be disappointed if the M03 is not allowed in the TCS races next year. I understand you want to keep running what you are comfortable with. I'm just wondering, is the M03 still popular at the track where you're running?

Ours is a decent mix of M05s and M06s with the occasional M03 thrown in.
Nah, comfortable is not the correct term. Most of the guys at the Tamiya USA track compete with the M03. Simple reason is that the 03 is faster here. The fastest 05 is nearly a second down to the fastest 03s.

Lap times are meaningless if you don't run the track and are only used here to show why the 03 is dominant here. The fastest single lap with a 21.5 B/L that I know of is a 16.1. A couple of guys have run 16.2. A few more have been in the mid 16's. Only two 05's have run in the high 16sec range.

The 05 is mostly run by the newer Mini guys. Most of us have an 05 to "play" with, but in crunch time the 03 is usually the car.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:07 PM   #20864
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I think Grandpa is right. Logic as we see it has nothing to do with the TCS rules. Fiefdom is a great way to describe it. In GT3 you can run almost any Tamiya tub chassis that exists. "Any TUB-type chassis XV-01, TT-01, TT-02, TA-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, FF-03 and TB-03, TB-04 variants." But, they may eliminate the M03. Why would they continue to put more restrictions on what has been the most popular class? Obviously, growing participation in then TCS series is not a goal.
This couldn't be more incorrect. I quote Granpa: "But, to be fair, very few of us are privy to many of the considerations that go into these decisions or rulings. What may seem idiotic at times, may be perfectly logical from a slightly different perspective."... This is a very important statement, as many here act on emotion while blaming someone, or the "logic" behind it, rather than just taking most things at face value, accepting it, along with whatever reasons they came from. It is not the goal to screw anyone over.
To call the TCS rules a fiefdom, or whatever have you, go ahead... but everyone needs to understand that contrary to popular belief, Fred is NOT the only person that dictates every minuscule detail of the TCS Rules. In fact, "you, the racers" have indirectly imposed every rule in the rule book; understand that. If no one ever sought the loopholes, or made 25,000rpm silvercan motors, there wouldn't be these debates... but then again...
There is no point to compare apples and oranges. Sedan cars are much different breed of vehicle compared to the M-Chassis cars. The minis are true spec cars, where even the slightest mechanical advantages will go a long way. Yes, maybe the TA01 and TA03 have no place in the rules, but would you ever run them, even against a TA04?... doubtful.
And Tamiya is uninterested in growing participation? How can a company which provides a free race do this if the only car worth getting, you can't get anymore? Every M03 product has a discontinued status with the exception of a few RTR kits. Possibly the market still holds much of the M03 inventory still, but I'm sure this will be taken into consideration as well.
Again, no one is out to screw anyone over, but the reality is was that this is bound to happen eventually, and not everyone can be happy. That's spec racing.

What's everyone afraid of anyway, a little competition? If the M05 is so bad, then you'll all have the same car to deal with. The M05v.2 definitely looks promising.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:13 PM   #20865
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Popcorn ready...
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