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Old 04-09-2014, 02:54 PM   #20776
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Nothing personal Granpa....but I didn't say anything about silver cans and 21.5's.
No, not at all. Just expressing my displeasure at possibly another change that was going to bump up the cost of racing.

The references to the switch from Silver Cans to B/L was about all the BS that was posted about how great the switch to B/L was going to make Mini racing. In our area, it seems as if the cars have become more costly and the spread from top to bottom has widened.

Let's examine the "facts" about what would happen with "flat packs". The first time someone starts using a 5000+ 90C pack and is faster, shortly thereafter, you will see more of those packs, until someone uses a 5600 pack. This may not be true in all locales, but will be true in many. If there are those who don't think that batteries don't make a difference, may the Gods be kind to you.

And for those of you who don't like trying to keep the cost of racing down, may you keep your jobs or keep having business success. I, for one recognize that that sort of thinking is what killed on road racing.
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Old 04-09-2014, 03:36 PM   #20777
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No, not at all. Just expressing my displeasure at possibly another change that was going to bump up the cost of racing.

The references to the switch from Silver Cans to B/L was about all the BS that was posted about how great the switch to B/L was going to make Mini racing. In our area, it seems as if the cars have become more costly and the spread from top to bottom has widened.

Let's examine the "facts" about what would happen with "flat packs". The first time someone starts using a 5000+ 90C pack and is faster, shortly thereafter, you will see more of those packs, until someone uses a 5600 pack. This may not be true in all locales, but will be true in many. If there are those who don't think that batteries don't make a difference, may the Gods be kind to you.

And for those of you who don't like trying to keep the cost of racing down, may you keep your jobs or keep having business success. I, for one recognize that that sort of thinking is what killed on road racing.

+1. I fully agree with Granpa
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:05 PM   #20778
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The cost of racing has gone up, in your case, due to a poor decision on Tamiya's part. There were/are better choices available than open 21.5. Coincidentally, our cost of racing also increased due to a choice made by Tamiya. (To make tires from soft cheese.) As far as batteries go, they're not as much of a factor, due to appropriately spec motors.

You're stuck dealing with both. I hope TCS makes a better motor choice soon, reducing the influence of batteries, so you'll only have one pain in the butt to deal with, other than me.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:55 PM   #20779
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Frankly, I thought the field was more fair this go around now that you have to lift.

Mark Browns mini looked like it had a 25.5 in it on the main straight compared to everyone else. But it had mad corner speed. At least for four minutes. When he kept the body from dragging. I kid, but just about the body dragging.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:14 PM   #20780
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M05v2 announced...
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:21 PM   #20781
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58593 1/10 R/C M-05 Ver.II PRO Chassis Kit
Tamiya is pleased to announce the release of a new face in the class of M-chassis cars. The M-05 Ver.II PRObuilds upon the original M-05 chassis, which was released in 2009. It features a number of upgrades, to improve balance and lower the chassis’ center of gravity, using a variety of option parts to make it a highly drivable unit.
Option Parts Included
- Aluminum Steering Post
- Aluminum Horn For Hi-Torque Servo Saver
- Full Ball Bearings
- DF-03 Heat Sink Bar Set
- Aluminum Turnbuckle Steering Rod
- CVA Oil Shocks
- Semi-Gloss Black Plated Wheels
- Aluminum Servo Mount (Blue)
About the Model
- This is a 1/10 scale R/C model assembly kit.
- The chassis is compatible with square-shaped battery packs.
- Tamiya designers have made numerous adjustments to make this as lightweightas possible, without
sacrificing durability.
- A new aluminum motor mount was designed specifically for this chassis.
- Chassis, D parts (arm stays and damper stays, etc.) and wheels have a Semi Gloss Black metal-plated finish.
- Please note that separately sold body, motor and tires are required. Some bodies may require modification
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:21 PM   #20782
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Square batteries is the biggest plus here!
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:54 PM   #20783
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Went to my favorite suppliers web site to check out the square batteries. Wow, there is a plethora of batteries to choose from and some shocking prices to someone accustomed to spending $30 for a pack. We had battery parity with the round packs, but that's sure out the window now.

It appears as if Mini racing is going to enter a new phase. Not all progress is good, but "it is what it is". It's going big bucks now and the class that I raced and enjoyed for so many years is changing. I don't think it's for the better, but I can afford to go along. I can just see it now. 21.5's cranked to the limit, powered with 7000mAh 90C packs. Zowee, sounds like fun, can't wait!!!!! Not

Last edited by Granpa; 04-10-2014 at 12:08 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:59 PM   #20784
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For anyone switching to the M05V2 and ditching their stick-pack LiPo batteries: I'm open for purchasing the used ones. My TA03 and M03 will love them =D
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:33 PM   #20785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
No, not at all. Just expressing my displeasure at possibly another change that was going to bump up the cost of racing.

The references to the switch from Silver Cans to B/L was about all the BS that was posted about how great the switch to B/L was going to make Mini racing. In our area, it seems as if the cars have become more costly and the spread from top to bottom has widened.

Let's examine the "facts" about what would happen with "flat packs". The first time someone starts using a 5000+ 90C pack and is faster, shortly thereafter, you will see more of those packs, until someone uses a 5600 pack. This may not be true in all locales, but will be true in many. If there are those who don't think that batteries don't make a difference, may the Gods be kind to you.

And for those of you who don't like trying to keep the cost of racing down, may you keep your jobs or keep having business success. I, for one recognize that that sort of thinking is what killed on road racing.


+2 The cost is the whole reason I decided to race the mini's. I was tired of having to dump money into TC's. New motor every week it seemed.. Almost as bad as carpet oval racing..
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:24 AM   #20786
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Square batteries is the right move. There is very limited availability of good quality round packs. Square is the standard for the hobby. Odd to hear complaints about the cost of a square pack from someone whose motor budget for 21.5 mini seems to already be double my motor budget for three classes in the last 5 years...
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:22 AM   #20787
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I think the move to square packs is a good idea. I've been running my own shop for the past 5 years and the round packs have always been harder to get than the square.
With the way Hobbykings prices are, folks here in Australia will have no trouble getting some great square packs for their mini.

The main brand of round lipos I would stock were IP3800 and I used to get a lot of complaints about them puffing, sometimes after 2 months, sometimes after 12 months, all of the IP's puffed eventually.

The other complaint was the lack of C rating for round packs. Everyone wanted 50 or 60C, 40C was never good enough.
I tried to tell them that 20C was all they needed, the Yeah Racing 3200 were 20C, Brad uses these and only these and he won nearly every event there was.
Once someone has bought into the "more C is better" hype then that's it for them, you can never convince them otherwise. There was a detailed story on rc-mini.net all about C rating and the effect it has on them in a mini.

Don't forget that there are also "shorty" square packs, so yet another tuning option :-)
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:31 AM   #20788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
No, not at all. Just expressing my displeasure at possibly another change that was going to bump up the cost of racing.

The references to the switch from Silver Cans to B/L was about all the BS that was posted about how great the switch to B/L was going to make Mini racing. In our area, it seems as if the cars have become more costly and the spread from top to bottom has widened.

Let's examine the "facts" about what would happen with "flat packs". The first time someone starts using a 5000+ 90C pack and is faster, shortly thereafter, you will see more of those packs, until someone uses a 5600 pack. This may not be true in all locales, but will be true in many. If there are those who don't think that batteries don't make a difference, may the Gods be kind to you.

And for those of you who don't like trying to keep the cost of racing down, may you keep your jobs or keep having business success. I, for one recognize that that sort of thinking is what killed on road racing.
Whatever type batteries you use you can buy more expensive ones. Even oval racing now some guys spend £50+ on a set on Nimhs to get an advantage. Personally its good news that the M05 will be able to take the more affordable square packs as most guys here have them and it was always a blocker to run an M-class.

Isnt one of the charms of Mini racing that they cant exactly handle a lot of power etc, so chucking in a top of the range lipo is not going to make the difference that it would in TC.
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:52 AM   #20789
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
Square batteries is the right move. There is very limited availability of good quality round packs. Square is the standard for the hobby. Odd to hear complaints about the cost of a square pack from someone whose motor budget for 21.5 mini seems to already be double my motor budget for three classes in the last 5 years...
I'm just going to assume this was aimed in my direction. Yes, I do race on a budget, but do have the capability to expand it. My objections aren't voiced as much in my behalf, as they are for those whose racing budgets aren't as flexible.

Don't know you, but you seem to be knowledgeable and have been around for awhile. I came into the hobby when I was already in my 60's and from heli's which ran upwards of $3000. But, at that time the Associated TC3 Ready to Run was the entry level weapon of choice. For about $250 including radio you had a pretty good car. You also had 2 or more full heats of Novice racers. You could also take that same car, do a few upgrades, install better electronics and still be competitive as you moved up. We all know how all this turned out.

Yes, I'm a reactionary. I can see the beginnings of the TC revolution starting in the Mini ranks. Yep, more expensive motors and now more costly batteries and Version 2, then maybe version 3 around the corner. Then after that the M08 followed soon after by the M08 Pro, then the Version 2 etc. All good for the shop owners in the short term, but as the number of racers diminish due to expense, not so good. I've seen it before.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:47 AM   #20790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcos graveyar View Post
58593 1/10 R/C M-05 Ver.II PRO Chassis Kit
Tamiya is pleased to announce the release of a new face in the class of M-chassis cars. The M-05 Ver.II PRObuilds upon the original M-05 chassis, which was released in 2009. It features a number of upgrades, to improve balance and lower the chassis’ center of gravity, using a variety of option parts to make it a highly drivable unit.
Option Parts Included
- Aluminum Steering Post
- Aluminum Horn For Hi-Torque Servo Saver
- Full Ball Bearings
- DF-03 Heat Sink Bar Set
- Aluminum Turnbuckle Steering Rod
- CVA Oil Shocks
- Semi-Gloss Black Plated Wheels
- Aluminum Servo Mount (Blue)
About the Model
- This is a 1/10 scale R/C model assembly kit.
- The chassis is compatible with square-shaped battery packs.
- Tamiya designers have made numerous adjustments to make this as lightweightas possible, without
sacrificing durability.
- A new aluminum motor mount was designed specifically for this chassis.
- Chassis, D parts (arm stays and damper stays, etc.) and wheels have a Semi Gloss Black metal-plated finish.
- Please note that separately sold body, motor and tires are required. Some bodies may require modification
Nice to see a new chassis coming out for those of us who enjoy building something new every few years, but to have a square pack and comment about making the chassis as light as possible is a set-back for TCS. What's the point in a light weight chassis when TCS just increased the minimum weight rule from 1250gr to 1300gr. At the last TCS race I found my M03 which is set-up identical to my M05 to be faster in the corners... and we all know the M03 with the servo raised to the sky has a high center of gravity.

I agree with Grandpa on the battery concern... bad enough we're all experimenting with different motors to find the right one, now its going to be batteries. Come on TCS, release some tougher rules to have a "spec" motor, speedo and limit on battery "C" rating and mAh before you start to see racers exit mini racing due to the complexity. Doing so will benefit everyone in the long run.

For the record I will be purchasing a M05vII... Glad at least the Hobbywing just stock speedo is less than $60.
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