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Old 02-04-2014, 10:33 AM   #20356
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Originally Posted by SilverShelby View Post
I guess with all the BL motor stuff going on it sounds like BS..
So my minis will be retired this year can't see spending 200.00 plus on
A BL setup to go in a 100.00 dollar car...
Its been fun......
And one note motors do help in winning and so do car setup and battery's..
I learned a lot on battery's from the last year nats.
Good luck to all this year
Mike, sorry to hear this. Good to meet you at the Nats last year. Winning "Best of Show" and making the A main was great tho. Mini racing will be poorer with your absence.

Hope that my "bitching" about the motor rules didn't influence your decision. There are a couple of ways to cut the costs on a B/L set up. Send me a PM if you're interested. Hate to lose a good guy.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:38 AM   #20357
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Mike, sorry to hear this. Good to meet you at the Nats last year. Winning "Best of Show" and making the A main was great tho. Mini racing will be poorer with your absence.

Hope that my "bitching" about the motor rules didn't influence your decision. There are a couple of ways to cut the costs on a B/L set up. Send me a PM if you're interested. Hate to lose a good guy.

Will do Granpa..
Thanks I really enjoyed hanging with you guys and meeting u in person.
Never know things may change..
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:47 AM   #20358
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Buy this motor:

http://www.tqrcracing.com/shop/produ....asp?p_id=2467

And this speed control:

http://www.tqrcracing.com/shop/produ....asp?p_id=6250

Set the timing to 45 degrees to start, check temps, keep adding till you get to 140 or so.

$140 and you'll NEVER have to touch it again. And it won't be slow.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:09 AM   #20359
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If nothing else... the mini thread is hoppin' with all the BL talk. March TCS should be very interesting!
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:14 AM   #20360
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Originally Posted by CraigMBA View Post
Buy this motor:

http://www.tqrcracing.com/shop/produ....asp?p_id=2467

And this speed control:

http://www.tqrcracing.com/shop/produ....asp?p_id=6250

Set the timing to 45 degrees to start, check temps, keep adding till you get to 140 or so.

$140 and you'll NEVER have to touch it again. And it won't be slow.
Or this one
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ess-Motor-215T

Set timing to ~70* and go from there.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:14 PM   #20361
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I don't (yet) have a Thunder Power, so I don't know how high the scale goes. But I do have a Kill Shot, the scale goes to 70*, so you can't start at ~70* and go from there. The rules say "end of scale" max. It's a smooth, quiet motor, but not as fast as some others that have shown up at the Tamiya track recently. If you go DOWN from 70*, it goes slower. I've been trying to order a 12.3 rotor for it, but Trinity's website doesn't seem to work for me.
With a Novak, unless you can rotate the end bell WAY past the end of the
scale, it's a dog. Oh, what to do?

I just saw on the TQ site that TP scale goes to 50*.
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Last edited by Laguna Bozo; 02-04-2014 at 12:21 PM. Reason: new knowledge
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:01 PM   #20362
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Originally Posted by Laguna Bozo View Post
I just saw on the TQ site that TP scale goes to 50*.
If I recall correctly, the Z3R has about 10 degrees advance when the indicator says zero, so that's 60 degrees total advance at the maximum setting.
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:25 PM   #20363
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Originally Posted by Laguna Bozo View Post
I don't (yet) have a Thunder Power, so I don't know how high the scale goes. But I do have a Kill Shot, the scale goes to 70*, so you can't start at ~70* and go from there. The rules say "end of scale" max. It's a smooth, quiet motor, but not as fast as some others that have shown up at the Tamiya track recently. If you go DOWN from 70*, it goes slower. I've been trying to order a 12.3 rotor for it, but Trinity's website doesn't seem to work for me.
With a Novak, unless you can rotate the end bell WAY past the end of the
scale, it's a dog. Oh, what to do?

I just saw on the TQ site that TP scale goes to 50*.
They go to 80*...
Trinity Revtech killshot motors

The motor is very touchy for timing. At ~72 it has nothing, at ~76 it's fast...
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:49 PM   #20364
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post

I'm sorry if I'm doing anyone a disservice, but MOTORS do count. Even during the Silvercan days, GOOD motor guys were winning the races. Most of the complaints were primarily about the expense and the way the rules are written. Your post on the Novak end bell is a perfect example of that. Now to me, that's another added cost and an advocacy of "cheating" by fudging the label. Incidentally, that would probably be caught in tech.
YMMV on your track. If they are being strict about the "end of label", that is about the most open to cheating and/or "have to have" THIS motor rule around.

As far as fudging the label is concerned, I have looked at 8 motors with that label brand new. They varied a little. So what is the label placement tolerance? (meant to be funny!) Should we hire Ernie's lawyer to talk about this?

In the Silver Can days - heck yeah the Gurus were doing WAY better than that right? But I thought we were talking about brushless?

I will concede that if you are on a large track and you are comparing an older Novak with a "bad sticker placement" to something with relatively unlimited timing - sure..... I could see that being huge. Are tracks like that really enforcing this rule strictly as written? Then I understand the concern!

I pity the tech crew. Those poor guys. How on earth would you truly be able to tech everything these days?
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:52 PM   #20365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitrzac View Post
They go to 80*...
Trinity Revtech killshot motors

The motor is very touchy for timing. At ~72 it has nothing, at ~76 it's fast...
I assume that only applies to classes that are FDR limited?

I'm usually around 30 in my non-mini classes! But I am still on the regular Revtech too. Is the killshot that much different?
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:05 PM   #20366
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Question about the Thunder Power and the Kill Shot motors?
One of the stipulations about the B/Ls for TCS is that they are ROAR Approved!
Anyone know if they are?
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:10 PM   #20367
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Yes they are...

http://roarracing.org/4rmb/forumdisp...ec-21-5-Motors

http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/...lessmotors.php
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:31 PM   #20368
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YMMV on your track. If they are being strict about the "end of label", that is about the most open to cheating and/or "have to have" THIS motor rule around.

As far as fudging the label is concerned, I have looked at 8 motors with that label brand new. They varied a little. So what is the label placement tolerance? (meant to be funny!) Should we hire Ernie's lawyer to talk about this?

In the Silver Can days - heck yeah the Gurus were doing WAY better than that right? But I thought we were talking about brushless?

I will concede that if you are on a large track and you are comparing an older Novak with a "bad sticker placement" to something with relatively unlimited timing - sure..... I could see that being huge. Are tracks like that really enforcing this rule strictly as written? Then I understand the concern!

I pity the tech crew. Those poor guys. How on earth would you truly be able to tech everything these days?
We're not as far apart as it might seem. We're just talking apples and oranges at times. I don't do ANY club racing, just TCS.

In the old Silvercan days, before the rpm limits you'd see motors that were faster than any 21.5. With the 18,750 rpm limit, most 21.5s are faster than a TCS legal Silvercan. A full race Silvercan will bump 30k, but those are not what we're talking about.

The rules at the TCS events I've attended have been pretty strictly enforced. I'd have to agree with you that tech is at best going to be difficult. Which is going to be a real "pisser". English slang, not the process or procedure of urination.

The competition at the Tamiya America TCS events has been pretty intense. We're scrambling for tenths. I'll use myself as a horrible example. In the 3rd A Main, I finished 6th. My fast lap was 0.1 sec slower than the winners. I had finished ahead of him in A Main 1&2. Sorry, but the motor and battery are really important. With competition that close, everything becomes important.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:15 PM   #20369
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
We're not as far apart as it might seem. We're just talking apples and oranges at times. I don't do ANY club racing, just TCS.

In the old Silvercan days, before the rpm limits you'd see motors that were faster than any 21.5. With the 18,750 rpm limit, most 21.5s are faster than a TCS legal Silvercan. A full race Silvercan will bump 30k, but those are not what we're talking about.

The rules at the TCS events I've attended have been pretty strictly enforced. I'd have to agree with you that tech is at best going to be difficult. Which is going to be a real "pisser". English slang, not the process or procedure of urination.

The competition at the Tamiya America TCS events has been pretty intense. We're scrambling for tenths. I'll use myself as a horrible example. In the 3rd A Main, I finished 6th. My fast lap was 0.1 sec slower than the winners. I had finished ahead of him in A Main 1&2. Sorry, but the motor and battery are really important. With competition that close, everything becomes important.
Context is everything isn't it. That's the problem with these online debates. You never know if its a truly fast guy moaning about tenths or a new guy hanging out here trying to figure out whether he should race and how much it will cost him.

It REALLY bothers me how few of those groups really mix. Serious guys - serious travel. And when we get "big" events locally half the club racers WILL NOT compete, and half the time expense is the real or perceived issue. I understand at the events with $85 entry fees, but I see this at TCS events as well. But when we have the most basic classes bring in multiple guys that have or could compete well at a Nationals, can you tell them with a straight face that they are racing at a "fun" event?

We ran brushed and brushless Mini at a TCS race here and a lot of us had hoped the drivers would sort into "serious" and "club" along those lines. Instead, it was more about who wanted to race serious silvercan or serious brushless. BTW, quite a few of the silvercans were turning laps better than some of the brushless guys, and we did 17.5!

Instead of debating the rules so much, how can we get those car counts where they SHOULD be? I can't believe that every TCS race doesn't get 300 entries. They should!


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Old 02-04-2014, 04:23 PM   #20370
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If anyone is debating coming to the OMAHA TCS over the expense of the change to brushless, let me know. I am more than willing to loan out a brushless system to you.

If you really want to run one of the races and money is an issue, I bet you will find a guy like me with WAY too much gear sitting around more than happy to help. And if you are NEW to TCS, I am more than willing to help you get the tune as well.

TCS is WAYYY too much fun, even if you don't have the "hot" motor - don't let that hold you back! With a few tips, it is MUCH easier to get in the mix in Mini racing than all this debate makes it seem. REALLY!

Those of you battling it out over motor a or b, don't sweat it so much! Its just MINI class.
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