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Old 06-25-2013, 10:58 PM   #19096
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Ok am looking to the experts for some input. My M05 has an issue with serious oversteer. I can't go into a corner aggressive at all or with any real amounts of speed without the rear coming around on me.

Now with my TC experience this sounds like a rear droop issue. When my TC's do it I take the droop screws in till I am happy. Unfortunately the mini as we all know does not have these. So would spacers in the shock serve the same purpose? If so how many would be a good starting point?

My shocks are the TRF mini shocks built per the instructions. But when the caps were put on I had the pistons at the bottom of the shocks (fully extended). Could the rebound be causing an issue as well?

Thanks in advance,
Jason

P.S. At this point I have a whopping 2oz of lead over the rear axle in order to try and tame it. I would like to ditch this if at all possible.
Could I ask a few ??????s. This is so the experts will have enough information to answer your request for help. Have you tried different tires???? What springs are you using???? Shock oil????? Rear camber???? Roll bars, front or rear or both???? Ride height front and rear???? Toe out---how much?????? What body????? Diff---tight or loose???? Ball diff or gear diff???? Did you make any transmitter adjustments????? If so what did you try???? What kind of track and what sort of layout?????

I blow hot and cold on whether droop is a significant adjustment on a Mini. But it seems to work backwards on a Mini from a TC. This is just my opinion and applies only to the tracks I run at and with my set ups.

For the rest of it, I'll let the experts opine.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:49 PM   #19097
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Could I ask a few ??????s. This is so the experts will have enough information to answer your request for help. Have you tried different tires???? What springs are you using???? Shock oil????? Rear camber???? Roll bars, front or rear or both???? Ride height front and rear???? Toe out---how much?????? What body????? Diff---tight or loose???? Ball diff or gear diff???? Did you make any transmitter adjustments????? If so what did you try???? What kind of track and what sort of layout?????

I blow hot and cold on whether droop is a significant adjustment on a Mini. But it seems to work backwards on a Mini from a TC. This is just my opinion and applies only to the tracks I run at and with my set ups.

For the rest of it, I'll let the experts opine.
Ok first off I will give what I have off the top of my head.
Tires: Front Tamiya Spec Hard A. Rear Tamiya Spec Hard S grip. Have tried others and spin out is less a problem but then it chatters. I am hoping to tune the car so I can run TCS. So getting the car in the groove using these shoes would be ideal but not required.
Springs: Front-Black/Blue Rear-Black/Red
Shock Oil: Front-40wt Rear-35wt
Rear Camber: Tamiya 2* Aluminum uprights with the rods with no spacer (guessing 2*)
Roll Bars: Yet to acquire due to availability issues
Ride Height: Front-4.5 Rear-4mm But have tried on a whim lowering the rear to see if it would give and extra rear traction.
Front Toe Out: Running 2mm spacer between arm ends. So I think 3*.
Body: Well as per this thread its apparently the worst one for the mini Alfa Romeo Mito
Gear Diff: AE grease but just enough to keep it smooth. Ball diff on the horizon.
Transmitter adjustments: None currently. I have tried adjusting D/R but to now avail as I have tried turning down EPA. Again no help other than making it not turn for beans.
Current track layout is a fairly technical one. Has 3 hairpins, couple switch backs, and a long sweeper to long straight. Track is a high traction once prepped with a few bumps here and there.

Hope these help to point me in the right direction.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:11 AM   #19098
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Why do dogs lick their (diff) balls?............................................ ..................Because they can........
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:44 AM   #19099
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Why do dogs lick their (diff) balls?............................................ ..................Because they can........
Must be raining again or you'd be out terrorizing the locals with your Porsche Speedster. That's got to be more fun than playing with "toy" cars.

To fresnojay, I don't know how to say this without sounding like an anal orifice, but the way your first post read, came across as a challenge rather than a request for help. Most of the real "experts" I know, like Craig (Laguna Bozo) do little posting. Most of the "real" experts sorta run under the radar. Also, it was arrogant and condescending and showed that you don't pay much attention.

No one is going to answer your post, the way it was worded. I know more than most, but would never claim to be an expert, so decline your challenge. Occasionally, a "real" expert will post here with some good advice like Tim K a few pages back on traction roll.

If you'd been paying attention, you'd have known that there were several discussions on how to build shocks, shock rebound, and how to adjust droop with shock length.

Didn't you ask the same question a little while ago????? Seems to me that you're running the same set up and body as before. Maybe I have you confused with someone else, but the guy who was having the oversteer problem was running the Alfa Mito body, black springs, and no roll bars.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:14 PM   #19100
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Grandpa, There is no way to say it without sounding like you were attempting to avoid sounding. So let me clear some stuff up for you since you seemed to have taken offense to what I thought was a clear cry for help.

When I say experts I am referring to those that have raced longer and with greater success than I over a broader spectrum of the racing scene. I have only raced locally for less than 1 year. Although I seem to be catching on to TC tuning, the finer points of Mini tuning continue to elude me. So when I say "experts" it is meant for individuals such as yourself that I hold/held in the greatest respect.

I may very well be the person to whom you are referring. BUT have tried several things short of sway bars for the before mentioned reasons with little or no result. New TRF mini shocks, varying shock oils, different ride heights and tire combo's. All of which were suggestions seen or found in this thread.

But seeing this response has me now taking my leave. Enjoy boys and girls.

Jason
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:53 PM   #19101
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Grandpa, There is no way to say it without sounding like you were attempting to avoid sounding. So let me clear some stuff up for you since you seemed to have taken offense to what I thought was a clear cry for help.

When I say experts I am referring to those that have raced longer and with greater success than I over a broader spectrum of the racing scene. I have only raced locally for less than 1 year. Although I seem to be catching on to TC tuning, the finer points of Mini tuning continue to elude me. So when I say "experts" it is meant for individuals such as yourself that I hold/held in the greatest respect.

I may very well be the person to whom you are referring. BUT have tried several things short of sway bars for the before mentioned reasons with little or no result. New TRF mini shocks, varying shock oils, different ride heights and tire combo's. All of which were suggestions seen or found in this thread.

But seeing this response has me now taking my leave. Enjoy boys and girls.

Jason
By the way Jason, sent you a PM.

Now we have the "expert" definition cleared up, I've got a few suggestions. I won't go into great detail. Your oversteer problem is not coming from the rear of the car, but from the front end.

These are some of the things I'd change

1. Lose the Alfa Mito body. In fact try running the car w/out the body just to see how it behaves. I only know one guy who got that body to work and he's a real expert

2. Put the rear shocks and springs on the front and move the fronts to the rears

3. Get a rear sway bar. TQ RC Racing has them in stock.

4. Shim your diff so it's stiffer

5. Go back some pages and read the stuff on shocks and rebound, then rebuild your shocks.

Your set up is so messed up, do all the above before you even attempt to drive the car.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:31 PM   #19102
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I apparently have a inadvertent day off tomorrow. So it lends itself to making the changes to the chassis you suggest. I am open to all advice as you said this sucker is messed up. It used to run on rails but since the track has been repaired and smoothed out it has gone out the window. As the track got better it drove worst.

I can and will try running without a body on friday during practice. I did find a beat up old actual mini cooper body I thought I tossed. I think I remember someone stating it was one of the better bodies. Would be worth a shot?

Jason
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:39 AM   #19103
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Top of the list should be the diff. Standard gear diff is much too free and will cause all sorts of handling problems, many more than the body or suspension settings.
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:35 AM   #19104
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The diff was tighter than it is now. I just did a complete tear down and the diff rattles which I know right off the bat is not good. So in the morning I will be heading out to the LHS I race at to get some shims. Thought I had some but guess not. Also noticed I will be needing to order a new set of tranny gears. The spur has a few damaged teeth which finally puts a finger on the nasty noise I had in my car.

Going to also see if they also still have a ball diff they had last week. I have read the issues that have been had with them and will follow the advice given during its build.

Jason
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:00 AM   #19105
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Wow. Guys ask for help and the anal orifices plainly, publically say 'I'm not going to help you'. This thread is chocked full of them (anal orifices). No wonder TCS is so jacked up...
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:20 AM   #19106
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. I just don't think much "grit" can get to the thrust bearing cause the diff is more or less sealed from the elements by the chassis halves. .
Remember, the fragile M05 thrust bearing is actually in the inner dogbone cup, not inside the car. They give you some pink foam to stuff in there to help protect it, but if that falls out, that bearing can be exposed to a lot of debris through the open cup when running on dirty parking lots etc. Also, when you look in there you can see the adjustment screw head is small allowing dirt to get right on the bearing. The adjustment screw head on the 417 diff is big and fills the diameter of the cup so you can't see the bearing.

A cool mod might be ceramic bearings in the thrust bearing. The thrust balls share the same compressive force as big diff balls, but because they are smaller, they rotate more and are under more tension.

Also, as follow up I can report that I raced last weekend on indoor carpet. I did not put locktite on the adjustment nut, or replace the nut with the one from the 417 diff or replace the adjustment nut or bolt. By ensuring the thrust bearing was clean and lubed with thrust-bearing grease, throughout all my races the adjustment screw stayed put, and did not loosen or tighten on its own.

Last edited by ic-racer; 06-27-2013 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:14 AM   #19107
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Wow. Guys ask for help and the anal orifices plainly, publically say 'I'm not going to help you'. This thread is chocked full of them (anal orifices). No wonder TCS is so jacked up...
Yeah, you're right, the world is full of them. I'll admit to being one of them. I'm just too damned old to put up with any BS.

Go back 2 or 3 posts and you'll see that Sosidge and I did try to help Jason. If you noticed no one helped because of the way Jason asked for help. It put anyone who responded in the very awkward position of declaring themselves a Mini expert. Once he cleared up the misunderstanding, he got the help he was asking for from the two of us.

Since you're calling me an anal orifice (my term, by the way), where was your post with your "helpful hints"?????? Yeah, it's really safe to question someone else's character, but it's harder to advance your ideas for the inspection and questioning of your peers. If you weren't the nether regions of a horse, you'd understand that.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:26 AM   #19108
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It is such a simple car. I wish it was just a point and shoot.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:27 AM   #19109
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[QUOTE=ic-racer;12295195]Remember, the fragile M05 thrust bearing is actually in the inner dogbone cup, not inside the car. They give you some pink foam to stuff in there to help protect it, but if that falls out, that bearing can be exposed to a lot of debris through the open cup when running on dirty parking lots etc. Also, when you look in there you can see the adjustment screw head is small allowing dirt to get right on the bearing. The adjustment screw head on the 417 diff is big and fills the diameter of the cup so you can't see the bearing QUOTE]

You're right. I'd forgotten. I did use the diff screw from the 416 to replace the stock one. Don't like being wrong. Hate even more to admit it, but would rather do that than keep looking like an idiot.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:24 AM   #19110
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Wow. Guys ask for help and the anal orifices plainly, publically say 'I'm not going to help you'. This thread is chocked full of them (anal orifices). No wonder TCS is so jacked up...
Yeah I concur. Usually, I enjoy reading this thread but you're right - that is the kind of attitude RC doesn't need. We aren't driving multi-million dollar cars at Laguna Seca. We are just a bunch of guys and girls who dig wrenching on and driving TOY cars.

Now if you'll excuse me, my mini and I have laps to do at my local tennis court
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