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Old 05-12-2013, 07:04 AM   #18841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post

[...]

Try raising the front ride height a mm or so to keep the weight transfer down.

[...]
I think that will have the exact opposite effect.

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Guys quick question
Does anyone know the difference between Tamiyas Antiware Compound and
a compund called Never Sieze?
In reality they look and feel the same
Nope. Never seize sounds like an anti-seize compound which is not a lubricant. It contains a large amount of fine granular nickel in some sort of suspension/solution(?) to prevent for instance manifold studs getting stuck in the head.

if you want something similar to Tamiya's anti-wear grease, you need to see a place specialised in old cars that might sell you a high pressure sticky grease used in the past in steering boxes on vehicles of yore.

Driveshaft CV joint grease (a thick molybdenum based grease) comes close and has the same dark grey colour.

Both of the above are sticky and are fit for high pressure applications which I think is the most important quality for something to use in a ball diff.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:44 AM   #18842
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Thanks
I did a google search of whats actually in Never Sieze and came up with the very same
answer that its not really a Lubricant
Hardest part of the search was actually tring to understand what they were saying about the different stuff thats in it!
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Last edited by KA2AEV; 05-12-2013 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:18 AM   #18843
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[QUOTE=niznai;12142911]I think that will have the exact opposite effect.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Remember that Minis are different from TCs.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:24 AM   #18844
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For a TCS race on very low grip asphalt, which of the legal tires / wheels would be the best to go with; PN 1016, 1028 or 1029?

Bill S.
Anyone? Pretty please?
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:05 AM   #18845
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[QUOTE=Granpa;12143478]
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
I think that will have the exact opposite effect.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Remember that Minis are different from TCs.
Rubbish. All vehicles are exactly the same as far as forces are concerned. Shall we keep the bad science out of the thread???
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:40 AM   #18846
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Anyone? Pretty please?
Go with the radials and use traction compound
1/2 on the outter front and the whole tire on the rear
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:02 PM   #18847
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Rubbish. All vehicles are exactly the same as far as forces are concerned. Shall we keep the bad science out of the thread???
You're absolutely correct. My post was worded poorly and I can see how you may have interpreted my saying or maintaining that the forces or the dynamics were different in a TC than a Mini. And you again are absolutely correct in pointing that out. Please accept my apologies and will try to be more careful in the future.

What the intention was to say was that frequently the adjustments made to a Mini may be at odds with those made in a TC. Hopefully, you can concur with that.

However, I still maintain that raising the front ride height as stated in the first sentence of my post does reduce the amount of weight transfer to the front wheels. Neither a scientist, engineer or mathematician am I. I did not do the math, go on the internet, consult any engineers or engineering firms, work out the vehicular dynamics on any of what may be numerous computer programs. My punctuation may not be perfect either. This observation and conclusion was made purely on the track by experience on my personal Minis and from a number of others that I've helped set up.

And yes, raising the front ride height does in fact compress the front springs more, thus increasing the front spring tension. But that in itself will decrease the amount of weight transfer, everything else being equal.

But I am glad that you gave me the opportunity to straighten out any misconceptions that may have arisen from my post.

Last edited by Granpa; 05-12-2013 at 01:04 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:28 PM   #18848
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It's never too late to learn something new. Sosidge is correct. Weight transfer is controlled by the CG location, wheelbase, track, and acceleration. A higher CG will give more weight transfer, as will a shorter wheelbase (for longitudinal acceleration) and narrower track (for lateral acceleration).

Using different spring rates, shock oil, and sway bars can change how the weight transfer is distributed for lateral acceleration, but will not change the total weight transfer.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:27 PM   #18849
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Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
It's never too late to learn something new. Sosidge is correct. Weight transfer is controlled by the CG location, wheelbase, track, and acceleration. A higher CG will give more weight transfer, as will a shorter wheelbase (for longitudinal acceleration) and narrower track (for lateral acceleration).

Using different spring rates, shock oil, and sway bars can change how the weight transfer is distributed for lateral acceleration, but will not change the total weight transfer.
I'm always ready to learn something new, but sometimes I need a little convincing. You apparently are very knowledgeable and will not dispute your statements or pronouncements that you and Sosidge are absolutely correct.

I do have a few questions. I do understand that if you accelerate a rod with a weight on each end that weight transfer will occur with the variable being the amount of force and the amount of weight. We could have just as easily said car.

My questions for longitudinal acceleration:

1. What sort of changes occur if you raise one end of the rod in relation to the other???? Or do any occur at all.

2. What happens if each end of the rod changes in height in relation to each other when ???? Does more weight transfer occur?????

3. If you can restrict the amount of upwards or downwards movement of each end of the rod, what effect will that have????? Spring rates

4. If the above do not affect the amount of weight transfer, why would a higher CG affect give more weight transfer???? For that matter,why would spring rates , shock oil etc. have any effect????

Lateral acceleration:

1. If one car rolls more in a corner than another, will there be more weight on the outside wheels than one that corners flatter?????

My contention was, that simple physics says that the forces may be the same, but that by making relatively simple changes in ride height, springs, shock oils, etc that changes things. Seems to me that you're arguing my side of the question rather than the other. Also, when you're driving a car, even as simple as a Mini, stuffs moving around all over the place. Things just aren't that simple.

Frankly, I'm more interested in what happens than I am in theory. However, would like you to answer my questions. As you said, never too late to learn new stuff.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:51 PM   #18850
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sound to me that the both of the party is right...But again..it is depend how they drive the car...this discussing is getting too personal what I am reading ....
sorry Granpa I'm leaning toward to howardcano saying ...
Shall we keep the bad science out of the thread???
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:27 PM   #18851
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ive obviously missed something when reading through, whats this rod you are referring too???
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:42 PM   #18852
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
I'm always ready to learn something new, but sometimes I need a little convincing. You apparently are very knowledgeable and will not dispute your statements or pronouncements that you and Sosidge are absolutely correct.
Please, always dispute and question! One should never blindly accept anything. There is plenty of information on the web regarding vehicle dynamics. Gather as much information as you can. I'll try to answer your questions, but you certainly shouldn't use only my input regarding the subject matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
I do have a few questions. I do understand that if you accelerate a rod with a weight on each end that weight transfer will occur with the variable being the amount of force and the amount of weight. We could have just as easily said car.

My questions for longitudinal acceleration:

1. What sort of changes occur if you raise one end of the rod in relation to the other???? Or do any occur at all.
If one end is raised and the other remains fixed in the height, then the CG is raised, and weight transfer is greater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
2. What happens if each end of the rod changes in height in relation to each other when ???? Does more weight transfer occur?????
This sounds to me like question number 1. Or are you referring to polar moment of inertia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
3. If you can restrict the amount of upwards or downwards movement of each end of the rod, what effect will that have????? Spring rates.
There will be no effect on the total weight transfer if the height of the CG remains constant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
4. If the above do not affect the amount of weight transfer, why would a higher CG affect give more weight transfer???? For that matter,why would spring rates , shock oil etc. have any effect????
A higher CG gives more weight transfer because it has more leverage around the tire contact patch. This occurs regardless of the spring rate, or even with no springs at all (infinite spring rate).

For lateral acceleration we can use spring rates to change the proportion of weight transfer handled by each end of the car. For instance, stiffer front springs or sway bar will force the front tires to carry more of the weight transfer load than the rear of the car, which will induce understeer. Using heavier shock oil on the front versus rear will cause the front tires to handle a greater proportion of the weight transfer only while the car transitions from a flat to a leaning attitude (on corner entry) or vice-versa (on corner exit). This is used to control the initial "turn-in".

For longitudinal acceleration, the transfer could be proportioned differently side-to-side by using different spring rates or shock oil on each side of the car, but this is rarely done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Lateral acceleration:

1. If one car rolls more in a corner than another, will there be more weight on the outside wheels than one that corners flatter?????
If all other things are equal, then no. The total weight transfer is controlled by the CG location, wheelbase, track, and acceleration only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
My contention was, that simple physics says that the forces may be the same, but that by making relatively simple changes in ride height, springs, shock oils, etc that changes things. Seems to me that you're arguing my side of the question rather than the other. Also, when you're driving a car, even as simple as a Mini, stuffs moving around all over the place. Things just aren't that simple.
My observation was for weight transfer only. As I mentioned above, we can use various adjustments to proportion the weight transfer between the tire patches, but the weight transfer will still occur in the same total amount.

Here is your statement that is incorrect, and which prompted my response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
However, I still maintain that raising the front ride height as stated in the first sentence of my post does reduce the amount of weight transfer to the front wheels.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:48 PM   #18853
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/1270V2-Eagle...item589a3c791e

I heard the 3racing high speed tuned gear set has issues but has anyone tried the Eagle speed tuned gear set v2? Is it more durable?
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:42 PM   #18854
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sound to me that the both of the party is right...But again..it is depend how they drive the car...this discussing is getting too personal what I am reading ....
sorry Granpa I'm leaning toward to howardcano saying ...
Shall we keep the bad science out of the thread???
Hey, I agree. Let's keep the bad science out of this thread. Are you reprimanding me for making this personal?????????

Was it not Sosidge who in essence said that I was full of crap????? Did I not apologize to him for a poorly worded post and explain that the conclusion he came to was not the what was intended?????

I just read Howards response to my questions and needed to modify my response.

Both of my posts in reply to theirs was respectful and even apologetic in one instance. If you believe this was personal on my part, you've never seen me make something personal. I'm too old to give a crap about what you or anyone else thinks. I'm not making this personal here, just stating a fact. Go back and read my posts and theirs and see who was insulting whom.

Last edited by Granpa; 05-12-2013 at 09:20 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:03 PM   #18855
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ive obviously missed something when reading through, whats this rod you are referring too???
Sorry about all this Brad. This whole thing came about from a careless statement of mine that adjustments to a mini could and often were different than a TC. The way it was placed made someone believe I was stating that the physical forces forces on a mini were different than a TC. Got jumped all over for that one.

I was just using a rod with weights on each end to simulate the car. just easier to visualize for me.
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