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Old 04-12-2013, 09:32 PM   #18736
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Originally Posted by ncpantherfan View Post
I am running the local parking lot races and we have started a mini class. We are following the TCS serieswith the exception of aftermarket shocks are allowed due to the cost of Tamiya ones. What spare and hop up options should I keep in stock? We are trying to keep it as a low cost fun class.
I also would like some advice for a base setup for my m05 pro. It was built to instructions specs. I would like to keep the costs down, but I have read I do need the aluminum steering posts. Are there any other mandatory items I need to add? What is a good base setup for sealed asphalt surface kind of low traction. We have started to spray soda to increase traction. After I get a good base setup I will be sharing with everyone.
My current set up is...
M05 pro built to instructions, nothing different.
Venom 4000 20c lipo
Stock silver can
Kit tires
Tekin fxr
Spectrum radio
Thanks for your input.
First, thank you to all who responded to my original query of how many $$$$ you have invested in your Mini. With the plethora of aluminum upgrades and the disappearance of inexpensive new brushed motor escs, it's tough to build a new Mini for under $500. Gone are the days of $250 Minis unless you have a bunch of old servos, esc, etc and bought a used Mini to start.

First mandatory item is an aftermarket aluminum steering assembly. 3 Racing makes a decent one for about $20. The stock steering is okay if you are highly skilled and never hit a dot or have anyone hit you. Unfortunately the 3 Racing one gets "loose" a lot quicker than the Tamiya one.

The second would be a decent set of shocks. The clear ones that come in the kit will break with the first hard hit.

The third would be, for me at least, aluminum clamp type hexes for the wheels. The stock ones easily split. I'd probably get a stronger rear axle cause the stock one are on the soft side.

Your set up question is more difficult. If you are using Tamiya tires only, use the S-grips with the Tamiya hard sponge insert. Use a light shock oil, soft springs with the rear one a step stiffer. For outdoor asphalt use a rear roll bar. If you can use any 60D tire use the Pit Shimizu #456 in front and the 452 in back. Tamiya hard sponge insert. These are available from Speedtech and TQ racing. If you can use the 55mm tire start with the Sweep premounts and go from there. Commonly used around here are Sweeps, ABC, Ride, RP and Atomics. In any case go soft on the Springs and shock oils.

Hope this helps.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:22 PM   #18737
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Originally Posted by V Needs Speed View Post
Yes I lost the spacers in the crash, however the hole the spacer goes through is where it cracked. I still have my manual, it seems like the parts I need are from the F tree. It the part that has the CV go through it, into the knuckle and has two screws on top and bottom that broke. But all the other F tree's parts seem to be too big for this aluminum knuckle.
Now it sounds like you're talking about the C-hub. Try to do a google search by part number for images and link here.
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:46 PM   #18738
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V, Tamiya 51238. It includes front and rear uprights and C hubs to suit the parts you're describing. You won't even need spacers anymore.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:25 AM   #18739
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Originally Posted by ic-racer View Post
Minicooper issues: on a long straight it can suddenly and unexpectedly veer off one side or another.


I have been racing 1/8 and 1/10 nitro for 20 years and currently we must have 30 RC cars in various states of repair and restoration. But we are new to Tamiya MiniCoopers and front-wheel drive RC.

I built 4 in the last year for myself and kids:

M05 S-Spec #84204 ( http://www.hobbymedia.it/img/2011/06...hassis-kit.jpg)
M05-Medium WB with many mods to almost match the "S-spec"
M05-Short WB stock
M03-Short WB stock

The "S-Spec" M05 is the best of the group (the stock M05, the worst) but still not perfectly stable in a straight line like, for example, our current box-stock TT01-E Audi (or just about any other Serpent or Kyosh I have had in the past).

I have set up and checked all the following:
Front toe out per the instruction manual (I'm back to those original settings after trying more and less toe in than the instructions call for)
Minimal steering % programmed in
Generous negative EXPO on steering
Metal servo saver arm ( cam in kit)
Metal Gear servo (Hitec HS-645MG)
all metal BB steering linkage (came with kit)
BB wheels
Tires and wheels seem round and true as they spin.
FASST radio.
No binding on A arms with shocks off.
All 4 shocks feel the same with same type piston and oil
No tweak evident on chassis
Tamiya Sport Tuned motor (plenty fast)
NiHi battery (plenty of run time)

I have a ball diff on the way. If that does not fix it, I'm inclined to think there is something inherent in the design of the car (like not enough caster to self center the steering?)

The question is : What is the best I should expect from these cars in straight line stability?
Couple more things to consider...

- Hitec servos are not well regarded for their consistency when centreing. There has been discussion on the merits of different servo brands above, personally I ALWAYS run Futaba and have never had any issues with them, whereas I have seen plenty of issues with cheap and mid-price servos (and I include Savox and Hitec in that group).

- Toe-out on the front is definitely the way to go. A full Tamiya aluminium steering system (from servo saver to bellcranks) should work well (I don't even use the aluminium cranks, just the aluminium posts)

- Diff - if you are still running the open gear diff, you could easily end up with the car diffing out as you gain speed or the car gets knocked sideways by the bumps and starts lifting wheels. The diffing out is going to change the relative speed of the front wheels and the car is going to start steering by itself. So the TA03 ball diff would be a worthwhile upgrade; oil-filled gear diffs are even better once you get the right setting; and I know a few people shim the standard diff.

- I would suggest running a small amount of droop on the suspension. If you run the car without droop (quite easy to do) it will be even more sensitive to bumps and even more likely to lift wheels.

- Run the stood-up front shock tower, it takes some of the laziness out of the front of the car so it straightens out more reliably.

Like many other people I had big issues with getting the M-05 to run in a straight line at first but the combination of steering upgrades, toe-out, tighter diff and suspension setup got it where I want it to be.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:42 AM   #18740
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Another point to consider (and this was mentioned many times in the past, but I don't expect you would have read all 1200 pages of this thread) is that these cars appear to have had slop engineered in their design. This is not an idea I subscribe to (coming from a TC background) but a lot of people here seem to think so. I have seen comments to the effect that if you take the slop out the car will be a pig. This is not my experience, I build my minis like I would build my TCs i.e. with minimal or no slop and my minis have never had the wandering problem. Other people here would testify to the contrary. The idea is to keep in mind this.

I agree Hitec servos have problems with centering. Futaba, KO and JR are my choice. Futaba BLS551, JR DS8915 and KO RSX one10 (or something like that) are all very good (fast, reliable, durable, accurate) but not necessarily cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge View Post

[...]

- Run the stood-up front shock tower, it takes some of the laziness out of the front of the car so it straightens out more reliably.

[...]
What is the part number?
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:08 PM   #18741
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Okay Ive heard the droop word mentioned several times,
Exactly how do you measure droop?
Mike
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:14 PM   #18742
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Okay Ive heard the droop word mentioned several times,
Exactly how do you measure droop?
Mike
For me if ride height is 5mm and at 7mm the tires lift of the ground, droop is 2mm.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:13 PM   #18743
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Originally Posted by KA2AEV View Post
Okay Ive heard the droop word mentioned several times,
Exactly how do you measure droop?
Mike
This may or may not be true in all areas cause it seems that different locals develop their own nomenclature. In the Mini culture in this area, droop refers to the amount the suspension arms drop beneath level. This is pretty much is never measured so it's difficult to quantify. Since droop adjustments are made with shock length, reference is usually made to shock length. For example, a 57mm shock will have more droop than a 56mm shock.

Certainly not as precise TC droop adjustments, but this is after all a Mini. The bottom of the chassis is not flat, so it would be difficult at best to measure droop in the traditional TC way.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:46 AM   #18744
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anybody knows what is the toe degree for the original plastic rear hub of the M05? Is the toe arising from the original rear plastic hub or from the suspension arm?
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:47 AM   #18745
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Thanks to all that responded to my questions about the M05 straight line stability. I'll check the mentioned items when I take the car apart to insert the ball diff.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:29 AM   #18746
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anybody knows what is the toe degree for the original plastic rear hub of the M05? Is the toe arising from the original rear plastic hub or from the suspension arm?
Stock rear toe in on a normal M05 is 2 degrees. On an M05 Pro, stock toe is 1.5 degrees. It is created by the uprights/hubs.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:23 PM   #18747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KA2AEV View Post
Okay Ive heard the droop word mentioned several times,
Exactly how do you measure droop?
Mike
This may or may not be true in all areas cause it seems that different locals develop their own nomenclature. In the Mini culture in this area, droop refers to the amount the suspension arms drop beneath level. This is pretty much is never measured so it's difficult to quantify. Since droop adjustments are made with shock length, reference is usually made to shock length. For example, a 57mm shock will have more droop than a 56mm shock.
I recently was also thinking a lot of droop, because everybody seems to measure it different. In the end, Joel is right. Lift the car up, the suspension moves down (of course you have to be sure, that they move completely down to full rebound, then you have the droop. Everything else is different measuring, nomenclature etc.
This is valid on every car, why it should not be. Shock length is not necessarily droop, only if the ratio from the shock to the axle is 1.

BR,
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:01 PM   #18748
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Droop is the shock length and resting ride height in combination.

Ride height will also change droop of a fixed length shock. Lower the ride height (while keeping the same shock length) will increase the droop.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:17 PM   #18749
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Okay Guys thanks for clearing the "droop" up for me,
BTW Granpa! Congrats for that TCS job
Looked impressive!!!
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:11 PM   #18750
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
For me if ride height is 5mm and at 7mm the tires lift of the ground, droop is 2mm.
Which only proves my point. The amount of droop is difficult to measure precisely or quantify. I just can't imagine myself trying to measure the chassis height while holding the car up in the air at the precise height that the tires come off the ground. What if your chassis is "tweaked" and one tire comes off the ground before the other. I know of very few racers that adjust for "tweak" or weight balance their cars.

Also, it isn't particularly important as to the measurement, but whether you're increasing or decreasing droop. I don't know of anyone that measures droop, but most of us do measure shock length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruebiracer View Post
I recently was also thinking a lot of droop, because everybody seems to measure it different. In the end, Joel is right. Lift the car up, the suspension moves down (of course you have to be sure, that they move completely down to full rebound, then you have the droop. Everything else is different measuring, nomenclature etc.
This is valid on every car, why it should not be. Shock length is not necessarily droop, only if the ratio from the shock to the axle is 1.

BR,
Matthias
Dear Sir, since you quoted part of my response and misinterpreted what I posted, it seems only fair that you go back and actually read what I posted. In order to help you out, let me explain. I said that in a longer shock it would have more droop than a shorter shock. The example I used was a comparison between a 56 and a 57mm shock. Since the Mini or at least mine doesn't have a droop limiting or droop adjustment screw, etc, the amount of droop is pretty much determined by the length of the shock. There are limits to this of course, and I don't believe that shock lengths of over 58mm or so have any effect for an onroad Mini.

No where in my post did I say shock length is droop. Also, what in blazes is the shock to axle ratio. It's something I've never come across. Explain, I'm interested. I'm guessing, you're talking about a ratio how much the shock lengthens and shortens to the amount the wheel axle moves. If it is, who gives a crap. Anyone with more than one neuron knows that that ratio would not be one just from the attachment points of the shock and the shock angles.

Last edited by Granpa; 04-14-2013 at 06:15 PM. Reason: spelling
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