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Old 03-10-2013, 11:28 PM   #18556
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A 21.5 will absolutely kill a "stock" Silvercan. We have quite a bit of experience with the 21.5 at the Tamiya USA track and it is not an even match. We also have a few that can rework Silvercan motors and here you need a Silvercan that will turn in the vicinity of 21k to make it an even match.

Many of us run 21.5 and the trusty old can and many of the guys here locally run 17.5, 21.5, "stock" Silvercan, and "hot" Silvercans. Personally, I run them all on a regular basis except for 17.5 which I run rarely cause the set up is different and, in my case, is only comfortable with 55mm tires.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:47 AM   #18557
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
A 21.5 will absolutely kill a "stock" Silvercan. . . .
We have the opposite experience at our track. A few of the guys switched to 21.5 motors. On the straight, the silver cans just walk away from them. Last week, the silver can that I was running was new, and I didn't do any "break in" to it, just stuck it in the car. They jokingly said that I was cheating by NOT switching to a brushless motor.

We are now agreeing that we will all switch to 21.5s to keep the racing close.

We had this same experience a couple of years ago. We ended up letting guys run 17.5s and then the speeds were almost identical to the silver cans.

Just to clarify this is with "blinky" ESCs.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:43 PM   #18558
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We have the opposite experience at our track. A few of the guys switched to 21.5 motors. On the straight, the silver cans just walk away from them. Last week, the silver can that I was running was new, and I didn't do any "break in" to it, just stuck it in the car. They jokingly said that I was cheating by NOT switching to a brushless motor.

We are now agreeing that we will all switch to 21.5s to keep the racing close.

We had this same experience a couple of years ago. We ended up letting guys run 17.5s and then the speeds were almost identical to the silver cans.

Just to clarify this is with "blinky" ESCs.
Same here, but we do "crank" the timing in excess of 45 degrees. If you don't advance the timing, you're right. The motors don't perform unless the timing is advanced.

Try setting the timing at 50 degrees or so and see what happens. It'll pull the "poop" right out of your shorts.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #18559
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Guys, quick question about tires.

I am running A slicks on all four corners of my M03. I have read elsewhere that these leave something to be desired if you do not have to use Tamiya parts. At the last race, the As seemed to be working OK, but I am new to this, so I don't know how much of an advantage other tires might give me. Any thoughts? I am only looking at 60D, since those are specified by our rules. Thanks.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:50 PM   #18560
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If anyone is looking for a Fully Hopped up TCS legal Tamiya M05 I just listed mine.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:29 PM   #18561
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Can someone tell me what inserts come with the mini pre-mounted tires I'm talking about the swift gray wheel ones.

Thanks guys
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:48 PM   #18562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Same here, but we do "crank" the timing in excess of 45 degrees. If you don't advance the timing, you're right. The motors don't perform unless the timing is advanced.

Try setting the timing at 50 degrees or so and see what happens. It'll pull the "poop" right out of your shorts.
I threw in a circa 1995 540 Johnson (From an old F103L kit), it was well broken in, despite its age the commutator looks to be in pretty good condition (at least from what little bit I can see). Its pretty informal but zipping around the driveway it certainly seems to be noticeably quicker than the Trakpower 21.5 with Novak Club esc combo I ran on the track. The Trakpower is brand new, that was its first outing, mechanical timing was cranked up around 50* (obviously no timing on the blinky esc). Not sure I'll make it to the track this week to get some lap times and do a direct comparison, but we'll see
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:27 PM   #18563
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regarding the 21.5 brushless, alot of it depends on the motor

The best I have found is a Revtech rated @2500kv,
next would be a tekin @2300kv
then a speed passion @2000kv

The track power is very slow. I am sure others have more info, but those 3 motors above are fast.

If i had to use a brushed motor against a brushless I would get a mabuchi torque tuned motor or the tamiya black can motor, as they are about as fast.

the mabuchi torque tuned motor with a 20t pinion has alot of rip out of the corners, more than my 21.5 revtech with a 18t pinion.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:17 PM   #18564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeGolf View Post
I threw in a circa 1995 540 Johnson (From an old F103L kit), it was well broken in, despite its age the commutator looks to be in pretty good condition (at least from what little bit I can see). Its pretty informal but zipping around the driveway it certainly seems to be noticeably quicker than the Trakpower 21.5 with Novak Club esc combo I ran on the track. The Trakpower is brand new, that was its first outing, mechanical timing was cranked up around 50* (obviously no timing on the blinky esc). Not sure I'll make it to the track this week to get some lap times and do a direct comparison, but we'll see
Look, I am not a B/L motor expert so will tell you what motors and esc that's installed in my B/L Mini. The esc is a KO 350 BLZ and the 21.5 is a Reedy Sonic and the 17.5 is a Novak Ballistic. Most of the other cars at the Tamiya track seem to have the Novak Edge esc. With either motor, it will run rings around any stock Silvercan. The Reedy and the Novak are the most popular motors.

Good stock Silvercans will turn 18.5k to 19.5k at 7.2v. You need one capable of revving 21k to 22k to be competitive with the 21.5. You had better have a 23k or better to beat a 17.5.

Also, some of the old, old Silvercans could really spin up, especially those that had the 4 slots in the can. Many of those would spin up to 21k or better.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:25 AM   #18565
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Quote:
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Can someone tell me what inserts come with the mini pre-mounted tires I'm talking about the swift gray wheel ones.

Thanks guys
The S Grip premounts come with hard inserts.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:28 AM   #18566
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But, but, what about tires?

What do you guys like in 60D size that are not Tamiya? I hear other brands tend to be grippier than the A slicks I have.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:43 PM   #18567
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But, but, what about tires?

What do you guys like in 60D size that are not Tamiya? I hear other brands tend to be grippier than the A slicks I have.
I have a pair of A slicks and found them to have plenty of grip on carpet. Don't feel like I need more grip.
Are you running on carpet? Are you using traction compound?
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:44 PM   #18568
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I am running on prepped asphalt without compound. They seemed OK to me, but I was wondering if it was worth the cost to try something else.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:40 PM   #18569
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I am running on prepped asphalt without compound. They seemed OK to me, but I was wondering if it was worth the cost to try something else.
I'd say try traction compound first. That makes a big difference.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:39 PM   #18570
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Quote:
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The S Grip premounts come with hard inserts.
Thank you
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