288LikesTamiya mini cooper
01-09-2013, 08:30 AM
What is so called illegal in my Car: lcd drives + tamiya 60d Tires in the rear(if it's illegal)... Wow , big deal ! We are all here to share ideas, not agree on everything.... Maybe the Acer Bearings are illegal too...lol... Just a few excuses for sour losers... In any case, I applaud my 360v2 club director for not being too tamiya like in enforcing unrealistic rules...
However, calling those who don't run to your rules making excuses and being a bunch of sore losers isn't a fair characterization either. I don't ever recall racing you or having ever lost a race to you. I was merely pointing out that running to different rules will change your point of view and may make what's worthwhile to you, worthless to me.
As you so accurately stated "we are all here to share ideas, not agree on everything", so why be so touchy when someone doesn't agree with you. Not everyone is going to be enamored of your ideas and you need to be more tolerant of them. Personal exchanges like this are just a big waste of time.
Last edited by Granpa; 01-09-2013 at 08:36 AM. Reason: addition
01-09-2013, 08:39 AM
Tech Regular
iTrader: (8)
Never said anything was illegal in your car. How could it be, since you're conforming to the rules in your series. Have fun.
However, calling those who don't run to your rules making excuses and being a bunch of sore losers isn't a fair characterization either. I don't ever recall racing you or having ever lost a race to you. I was merely pointing out that running to different rules will change your point of view and may make what's worthwhile to you, worthless to me.
As you so accurately stated "we are all here to share ideas, not agree on everything", so why be so touchy when someone doesn't agree with you. Not everyone is going to be enamored of your ideas and you need to be more tolerant of them.
However, calling those who don't run to your rules making excuses and being a bunch of sore losers isn't a fair characterization either. I don't ever recall racing you or having ever lost a race to you. I was merely pointing out that running to different rules will change your point of view and may make what's worthwhile to you, worthless to me.
As you so accurately stated "we are all here to share ideas, not agree on everything", so why be so touchy when someone doesn't agree with you. Not everyone is going to be enamored of your ideas and you need to be more tolerant of them.
01-09-2013, 11:24 AM
What is so called illegal in my Car: lcd drives + tamiya 60d Tires in the rear(if it's illegal)... Wow , big deal ! We are all here to share ideas, not agree on everything.... Maybe the Acer Bearings are illegal too...lol... Just a few excuses for sour losers... In any case, I applaud my 360v2 club director for not being too tamiya like in enforcing unrealistic rules...
Wheres that ignore list again , thought you had dissapeared
Shame your here :-(
01-09-2013, 12:40 PM
according from Mark Brown saying the the dont use the M03 c-hub on M05...
01-09-2013, 01:26 PM
Again, it depends. The C hubs they made up to the introduction of the M03M/M03R (2006 or 2007?) were a different size. The C hubs used from that point are interchangeable (unless they made some change in geometry I hadn't noticed). I've used both and haven't seen a difference, except thaty the plastics used in the 05/06 versions are more brittle.
The next change in C hub design same with the M06, when they integrated the anti-roll bar mounting points.
Anyway, about TCS vs. everybody else: I've been rather too vocal in the past regarding my feelings towards TCS rules. I'd always believed them to be a little too protectionist, but I'm beginning to see the light. In fact, following hours of discussion with many other racers and organizers, I can see the value in running a "bone stock" mini series, with absolutely no alloy bits, CVDs, gumball tires or any hop-up beyond dampers and bearings. However, as one of my compatriots put it "the horse is out of the barn." I'd still like to try it, but just try to find a mini these days that doesn't have some kind of bling on it. Of course, this would also re-open the silver can/red dot debate and none of us want that.
Jim
The next change in C hub design same with the M06, when they integrated the anti-roll bar mounting points.
Anyway, about TCS vs. everybody else: I've been rather too vocal in the past regarding my feelings towards TCS rules. I'd always believed them to be a little too protectionist, but I'm beginning to see the light. In fact, following hours of discussion with many other racers and organizers, I can see the value in running a "bone stock" mini series, with absolutely no alloy bits, CVDs, gumball tires or any hop-up beyond dampers and bearings. However, as one of my compatriots put it "the horse is out of the barn." I'd still like to try it, but just try to find a mini these days that doesn't have some kind of bling on it. Of course, this would also re-open the silver can/red dot debate and none of us want that.
Jim
Last edited by monkeyracing; 01-09-2013 at 01:47 PM.
01-09-2013, 02:29 PM
Again, it depends. The C hubs they made up up to the introduction of the M03M/M03R were a different size. The C hubs used from that point are interchangeable (unless they made some change in geometry I hadn't noticed). I've used both and haven't seen a difference, except thaty the plastics used in the 05/06 versions are more brittle.
The next change in C hub design same with the M06, when they integrated the anti-roll bar mounting points.
Anyway, about TCS vs. everybody else: I've been rather too vocal in the past regarding my feelings towards TCS rules. I'd always believed them to be a little too protectionist, but I'm beginning to see the light. In fact, following hours of discussion with many other racers and organizers, I can see the value in running a "bone stock" mini series, with absolutely no alloy bits, CVDs, gumball tires or any hop-up beyond dampers and bearings. However, as one of my compatriots put it "the horse is out of the barn." I'd still like to try it, but just try to find a mini these days that doesn't have some kind of bling on it. Of course, this would also re-open the silver can/red dot debate and none of us want that.
Jim
The next change in C hub design same with the M06, when they integrated the anti-roll bar mounting points.
Anyway, about TCS vs. everybody else: I've been rather too vocal in the past regarding my feelings towards TCS rules. I'd always believed them to be a little too protectionist, but I'm beginning to see the light. In fact, following hours of discussion with many other racers and organizers, I can see the value in running a "bone stock" mini series, with absolutely no alloy bits, CVDs, gumball tires or any hop-up beyond dampers and bearings. However, as one of my compatriots put it "the horse is out of the barn." I'd still like to try it, but just try to find a mini these days that doesn't have some kind of bling on it. Of course, this would also re-open the silver can/red dot debate and none of us want that.
Jim
Many racers steer away form TCS events cause the "rules are too strict" which really isn't the case at all. I did not run the TCS Series for a number of years, due to that mistaken belief. It was a surprise to me when I found the changing of one part made my car TCS legal.
Another fear of course is the Red Dot one. For Regional events the motors are redlined at 18,750 rpm which many stock motors will approach or exceed. At the Nationals, you go into tech with no motor in your car. They hand you a motor in tech which you install in tech. You then race your heat and turn your car into a separate tech area. After turn marshaling, you return to tech, remove the motor and turn it in. All of this occurs under the watchful eye of the tech people. A lot of work for the tech people and expensive for Tamiya, but the competitors are assured of a fair event.
Have no fear, give it a try. I'll bet you'll have a good time.
01-09-2013, 02:29 PM
Anyway, about TCS vs. everybody else: I've been rather too vocal in the past regarding my feelings towards TCS rules. I'd always believed them to be a little too protectionist, but I'm beginning to see the light. In fact, following hours of discussion with many other racers and organizers, I can see the value in running a "bone stock" mini series, with absolutely no alloy bits, CVDs, gumball tires or any hop-up beyond dampers and bearings. However, as one of my compatriots put it "the horse is out of the barn." I'd still like to try it, but just try to find a mini these days that doesn't have some kind of bling on it. Of course, this would also re-open the silver can/red dot debate and none of us want that.
Jim
Jim
The alloy upgrades allows the bling guys to run also. Hell im one of the worst for that lol. Im well aware it makes absolutely no difference to my final result (other that durability) yet i just love to upgrade it
But to force the racers to buy Tamiya only is short sighted when not involved in the TCS IMHO. Oh and dont be confused that TCS rules means stock minis 
Any Tamiya Hop-Up Option and spare part is allowed and legal as long as it is used in the way it was designed, and installed on the vehicle it was designed for.
Tamiya have a business plan pure and simple with the TCS. Its their series so of course you can only run their upgrades. Ive never had an issue with it when running it. Only when a club isnt a part of the TCS series, should you concern yourself, that your missing out on much cheaper options for upgrades and replacement parts. Oh and dont forget availability....
Karz have done an amazing job of catering to both the spec side and the upgrade side of the class. IMHO its the BEST place to race a mini, and the competition level is amazing, no matter what the chassis or upgrade, its the driver everytime. Oh and a little luck!
01-09-2013, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the input, guys. My point regarding a "box stock" series is based on conversations I've had with a few people. The idea would be to run the most basic, cheapest possible version of the car. (Which is, incidentally, close to what I'm running now. To make my car fit the "box stock" suggestion, I'd only have to swap in the plastic knuckles and dogbones.) The only downside would be durability. I'm running M03/TL01 uprights that are likely 10 years old by now. I'm using them only because they never break. I certainly don't think they're any better/faster than the plastic.
Getting into the cheapest possible car discussion is a whole other kettle of fish. I love running at Karz, because of our common sense rules. To my mind, there's no reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to run a more affordable upgrade made by another manufacturer, as long as it has it's Tamiya equivalent. It makes the cars a little more tweakable and adds another element of fun to the hobby. The "Tamiya equivalent" rule has sort of fallen by the wayside in a few areas, however. Tamiya doesn't make an oil filled diff or double CVD shafts. We know the oil filled diff is making a difference (ha!) in the M05s and there has even been the suggestion that they're providing an unfair advantage. I don't want to get into that argument, though. No one will win. Ever.
Suffice it to say that I'm not (personally) a fan of the oil filled diff or double CVDs, but as a club administrator, I see what needs to be done to keep people happy.
Now, we need to talk about a few locals who are really terrible drivers, but place consistently in the A mains. They crash every lap. but still manage to TQ somehow. It makes me wish we had the will and the manpower to do some tech inspections. That brings up the hand out motors/tech run at TCS events. This is a brilliant idea, if you've got the people and the time to make it happen. As it sits, all we (that means me) can really do is walk the pits and check for really obvious stuff. We actually considered a handout motor rule, but the whining, even before it was publicly suggested, was deafening.
Anyway. It is what it is.
Jim
Getting into the cheapest possible car discussion is a whole other kettle of fish. I love running at Karz, because of our common sense rules. To my mind, there's no reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to run a more affordable upgrade made by another manufacturer, as long as it has it's Tamiya equivalent. It makes the cars a little more tweakable and adds another element of fun to the hobby. The "Tamiya equivalent" rule has sort of fallen by the wayside in a few areas, however. Tamiya doesn't make an oil filled diff or double CVD shafts. We know the oil filled diff is making a difference (ha!) in the M05s and there has even been the suggestion that they're providing an unfair advantage. I don't want to get into that argument, though. No one will win. Ever.
Suffice it to say that I'm not (personally) a fan of the oil filled diff or double CVDs, but as a club administrator, I see what needs to be done to keep people happy.
Now, we need to talk about a few locals who are really terrible drivers, but place consistently in the A mains. They crash every lap. but still manage to TQ somehow. It makes me wish we had the will and the manpower to do some tech inspections. That brings up the hand out motors/tech run at TCS events. This is a brilliant idea, if you've got the people and the time to make it happen. As it sits, all we (that means me) can really do is walk the pits and check for really obvious stuff. We actually considered a handout motor rule, but the whining, even before it was publicly suggested, was deafening.
Anyway. It is what it is.
Jim
01-09-2013, 03:01 PM
I seem to have rctech stalkers that butt in all my conversations with other RCtech members. Hopefully a moderator will stop the stalking, and make the stalkers post about tamiya mini coopers and not about calling me names !!! Do they even race minis ???
01-09-2013, 03:21 PM
Jimbo, dont get caught into the BS bud. Ask them to show proof the oil diff is an advantage, show it on the track. Considering its a cheap diff alternative and well made, I like that we allow it. As for the double jointed driveshafts..... well that one is a different issue. Thats one for the ban list IMHO. Its no different to an aftermarket set of arms that adjust the geometry of the suspension from stock. There is an advantage for sure. Less wheel vibration on tight corners, means more consistent traction.
Hand out motors, while a great idea for the massive races, its still a royal PITA for organisers and volunteers. One thing you can be assured of, the complainers and whiners will move onto another area of the car and complain some more
A few other races in our area have proven you can still have a great time racing these minis, alongside the complainers. Just go to the race with the intent to race a silly little "mini" rc car, and your set
Hand out motors, while a great idea for the massive races, its still a royal PITA for organisers and volunteers. One thing you can be assured of, the complainers and whiners will move onto another area of the car and complain some more
A few other races in our area have proven you can still have a great time racing these minis, alongside the complainers. Just go to the race with the intent to race a silly little "mini" rc car, and your set
01-09-2013, 03:35 PM
I wanted to change my original m03 kit dogbones to something better, and considered the tamiya Ujoint upgrades until I found out that they did not really solve the vibration problems at all ... Sure they Work better than the dogbones, but why not solve the problem all the way ? I hope tamiya comes with their own double cardant joints soon....
01-09-2013, 03:37 PM
Granpa, regarding traction rolling, I very much like the idea of fixing it without CA. I have some things to try (shock/spring/sway bar tweaks) that will be first, but was wondering about tires. Spec tire out our local track is Sweep, and we can run 25's, 33's or 40's. I am running 40's all around on my M05 (high traction carpet, club level, not national level high grip) and the thing turns like a monster (almost 12th scale twitchy). Even backing off to full rear tire additive and none on the front, once the fronts warm up, it wants to roll. Is some of this just a factor in using slicks that I need to work around? I am not sure I want to run staggered compounds front to rear, but with the spring suggestions (I run hard front, soft rear like in TC currently which seems to possibly be backwards), I am not sure what tires and which side of the car to start with.
Someone posted that just changing springs is not enough, but the common setup advice is always to change one thing at a time. My experience is TC and pan car, so this mini is all new to me. I am not worried about top speed, and have little inclination to go crazy wrenching on it (it is a stress reliever class), I just want to make it a little less rolly polly.
I currently have the stiff front sway bar on it, blue front, red rear springs, 35wt AE oil, stock camber and toe, ride height is lower arms level, spec R oil filled gear diff with 100k in it (TC's ruined me for ball diffs). Slowing down steering speed and travel has helped some, stiffening the front has really had little to no effect (originally no swaybar and yellow front springs). I know I am falling into the TC setup trap of stiffening the front, which is why I am asking and my lack of mini knowledge.
Thanks!
01-09-2013, 04:22 PM
Correction: The current 05 C hubs are different in that they have steering travel limiters molded in. I've never directly seen an issue with the older version, but it was an issue for a friend last weekend. My bad!
AJ, oil diffs cheap? Not as cheap as my shimmed gear diff, pal!
AJ, oil diffs cheap? Not as cheap as my shimmed gear diff, pal!
01-09-2013, 05:41 PM
That's alot of Work for the tech people at tamiya events ! With all radio calibrated at full throttle and spec Tires, a speed Gun down the straight would be good enough to catch the cheaters. Even if they run different gears, they will be caught.
I also raced against a few red dot minis, and I know the feeling of being blown away down the straight, but most of them flip at the next turn, and I pass them right back... Another good thing about certain layouts is that you're consistantly turning, thus limiting the top speed of the red dot racers. Any faster and they traction roll...
Anyways I love the track where I mostly race(360v2), and hope they reopen soon so you guys can see why I was arguing vigorously about all the other aspects of front droop that are not so obvious , and need serious thought to grasp...
I also raced against a few red dot minis, and I know the feeling of being blown away down the straight, but most of them flip at the next turn, and I pass them right back... Another good thing about certain layouts is that you're consistantly turning, thus limiting the top speed of the red dot racers. Any faster and they traction roll...
Anyways I love the track where I mostly race(360v2), and hope they reopen soon so you guys can see why I was arguing vigorously about all the other aspects of front droop that are not so obvious , and need serious thought to grasp...
01-09-2013, 05:45 PM
By the way, any videos of your minis Racing ??????