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Old 01-06-2013, 06:56 AM   #18106
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Hi Granpa,
I think we are also considering the effect of droop when the car is leaning in a corner. And how more/less droop affects the inside tire when leaning.
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Yeah, you're right, Joel. But the subject under discussion was the effect of droop adjustments on acceleration. This started out cause someone felt that increasing droop would keep the front wheels of the car on the track during acceleration.
Maybe a bit of confusion here, I was talking about acceleration out of a corner. Essentially once your past the apex you are looking to get the power down as soon as possible to carry that speed down the straight. At this point the car is still leaning and making the inside wheel light. Obviously a tight diff helps keep the power on the outside wheel, but I wondered if allowing more droop would keep more weight on the inside wheel allowing better grip and acceleration.
I didn't mean you should use droop to help with straight line acceleration.

I'll make no apologies though as the resulting discussion has proved very informative and I have learned much and realize some of my setup approaches have been all wrong. Thanks to all the great minds and racers who have chipped in.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:20 AM   #18107
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Maybe a bit of confusion here, I was talking about acceleration out of a corner. Essentially once your past the apex you are looking to get the power down as soon as possible to carry that speed down the straight. At this point the car is still leaning and making the inside wheel light. Obviously a tight diff helps keep the power on the outside wheel, but I wondered if allowing more droop would keep more weight on the inside wheel allowing better grip and acceleration.
I didn't mean you should use droop to help with straight line acceleration.

I'll make no apologies though as the resulting discussion has proved very informative and I have learned much and realize some of my setup approaches have been all wrong. Thanks to all the great minds and racers who have chipped in.
No confusion, but the introduction of a new force vector does not change the equation. In the scenario you're describing, it still works the same way as in a straight line only that you've introduced forces that unload the inside front wheel even more. Allowing the inside front wheel to "droop" more doesn't mean that will keep more weight on that wheel. What it does is, it allows more weight to be transferred to the outside wheel.

The simple answer to your question is that you need to be able to maintain drive on the outside wheel. This is done with a tighter diff. IMO one of the fallacies of building a fast set up is this idea of being able to get on the power sooner. As soon as you get on the power in a Mini, it pushes like a pig. Simple weight transfer, remember. It's more important to maintain momentum thru the corner and be able to time the power application which is what the fast Mini guys seem to do. Admittedly on the wider radius corners, you may need the application of power, but that's more neutral than trying to accelerate in the corner. If you apply more power than a neutral amount, you'll transfer weight off the front wheels and the car will push. If you can work with a push on corner exit, you can get on the power earlier. I could say more about this , but it's more of a driving issue. Suffice it to say that many of you could give me driving lessons.

Now I've been called a simple minded dolt for believing this, but for me droop is an adjustment for front to rear or vice versa weight transfer. This can also be a diagonal adjustment. For the most part, cause most of the discussion was about front droop adjustments, is not significant. Just build the front shocks to 56+to 57mm and leave it there. Building it to 58mm+ to increase droop isn't gonna make a damn bit of difference. It may be better in some situations, but it's for other reasons such as side to side weight transfer, suspension compliance, etc.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:43 PM   #18108
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Gears are noisy in general and need good clearance to keep quiet. I always find the points of possible contact of all my gears and angle them enough to get better clearance....
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:19 PM   #18109
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Gears are noisy in general and need good clearance to keep quiet. I always find the points of possible contact of all my gears and angle them enough to get better clearance....
What?
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:43 PM   #18110
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What?
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:53 PM   #18111
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Perhaps he means he files them.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:38 PM   #18112
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Hi all,

I hope you don't mind the small sidestep in this forum.
Please feel free to PM me your replies if we would like to keep this thread 'clean'.

I understood the Top Mini Sabre, would be noisy, but that;'s putting it really mild.
Are there any solutions or tricks to bring the racket down PLEASE?
Would swapping the middle gear with M03 one help?

Do all diffs/spools for the M05 fit this car?
This one is for you too, Gitz. Just cut n pasted this from RC-mini.net

"A quick glance at the open transmission shows more than a cursory similarity to the gear set from our beloved Tamiya M03/05 cars. And while they look the same, they aren't 100% identical. The idler gear is a direct replacement, no problem there. The diff? Well we put a TA03 diff in the car with no issues at all apart from needing to use the M05 bearing carriers to accommodate a set of smaller bearings. However the car comes with a perfectly good ball diff anyway, we just did the swap to see if it could be done. The only modification you need to do in order to accommodate Tamiya gears is with the combo spur gear. The larger gear is fine, but the smaller gear is too wide by comparison with the TOP item. You need to slice about 3-4 mm off the Tamiya one to get it to fit. Tim and Brad butchered one to fit on the dining room table with nothing more than a pair of side cutters and a hobby knife. It wasn't the most elegant solution, but it was certainly something that you could easily do on your pit table if you needed to."
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:16 PM   #18113
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Another thing to consider while turning is that with a lower CG after the apex, your Car will accelerate quicker. Since a lower front droop will cause the CG to drop when the Car rolls in , you will accelerate faster than with high front droop.... Your suspension compressing will act like a launching pad for your Car at every corner, but if your suspension is already fully extended, you'll have zero launch out of the corners... Too stiff a suspension = no compression therefore no launch.... Too soft a suspension = no rebound, again no launch.... It has to be just right to Work ...
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:25 PM   #18114
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Yes file the gears at an angle, and dremel the inside of the gearbox where there might be low clearance. Polish all the internal surfaces(teflon) , run the Bearings with no shields and minimum lightweight lube, file both teeth edges of the pinion gear too(like the hirosaka gears)...
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:33 PM   #18115
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I forgot, you'll also need to file the tooth edges of the ball diff too to make it more efficient.... It will take time to do all this but , once it's done, you'll know you're getting all the ponies on the ground.....
I also run lcd/ecs type drives where possible to increase efficiency even more...
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:38 PM   #18116
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I also run Acer Bearings, by the way.....
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:05 PM   #18117
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I finally got it. you're just post in' stuff to mess with peoples minds. Actually, very funny. You must have a pretty wild sense of humor. I'll have to watch for you so you don't rope me in again.

Thanx, I'm still chuckling.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:39 PM   #18118
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Hi all, I'm really new to the M05. I had an M01 and an M03 years ago but never really raced them, just picked up a M05 and am looking to race it in a local parking lot series. I've seen a lot of setups in this thread for carpet and regular smooth tracks, but nothing really for parking lot style setups.. Any advice?

I'm running an M05 pro, with the tamiya front aluminum shock tower and a a steering g set.. What's a good tire for the parking lot?

I'm on offroad guy, but have always had a soft spot for the mini's 😄

Last edited by andyhe; 01-06-2013 at 08:42 PM. Reason: SpelliNg
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:59 PM   #18119
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The question now, Bert, is whether or not you're winning.

Any advice on affordable dsc/ecs/lcd (fancypants double jointed) axles yet? The Yeah Racing units are a tad ridiculous at $50 and the Spec R versions are allegedly crap.

BTW, Kawada pinions (part number K20 at m-chassis.com) for minis have beveled/polished edges. They're quite nice.

Jim
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:10 PM   #18120
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Granpa, who's been calling you names? We're going to go lynch 'em!
...And quit giving away all our Speed Secrets!
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