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Old 09-26-2012, 05:51 AM   #17581
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Do you guys find the fit of the bearings in the spur gear and the counter gear woeful ?
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:08 AM   #17582
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Here's something you might try instead of machining custom hinge pins. Use the option hinge pins and cyano them in the chassis. Then assemble the arms around the hinge pins. This will eliminate a lot of the "slop" and is doable by your average Mini owner, who probably doesn't own a lathe or have access to titanium bar stock.

I have done this to the rear of several Minis when they got a little too loose. It's easy to do and not tricky. The front is more difficult and requires that the rear portion of the arm be on the hinge pin before cyanoing on the right side or maybe both sides. Been so long I don't remember. Besides, I use the screw pin in front cause the large head protects the suspension arm.

I don't think you need a spacer between the bearings on the axles. The drive pin will prevent squeezing the hex down so far that you squeeze the bearings together. As evidence of this, the plastic hex often will crack at the drive pin slot. The hex bottoms out on the drive pin causing this.

Please note that there was no intention to slight, insult, demean etc you in any way. If I caused you any offense, let me apologize and assure you that was the furthest thing from my mind. I was just presenting a procedure on hinge pins that was more in the reach of the average modeler. On the axle bearings an alternative view was offered for your consideration and comment and for anyone else's consideration and comment. Ordinarily, I wouldn't add the disclaimer, but I have apparently caused great injury to some people lately.
Don't take to heart everything said on an internet forum.

I have the sensitivity of an anvil, not that easily offended, hehehehe! How do you offend an anvil, by the way?

I already have the option hingepins, but I didn't think of that solution, thank you. I did remember that was how I fixed stripped threads in plastic (and then the plastic cracked and so on). There's never an easy way out of a tight spot.

As for the axle bearings, perhaps you don't do them up tight enough. The plastic hexes have a little shoulder that is supposed to bottom out on the inner bearing race at the same time as pin bottoms out in its slot, but I found that more often than not it pushes against the bearing, especially when the hex is starting to get tired and more so when it is cracked as you say. This is how I started using the spacers.

Racing TC I also found that a sideswipe to the boards or another car can put enough of a shock to the bearings that they become gritty and I hate that. This way, both bearings take the shock of such an incident, hopefully allowing both to survive. Not sure if it works, but at least the driveshaft is not rammed in the diff outdrive (very important when your driveshafts are at the bottom of the outdrive as your car corners at full lock with the suspension under full travel.

Academics, really.

But I have to say in my defense I never had any of those stupid problems any racer has experienced at one time or another like losing a wheel nut and then a wheel, or balljoints popping out and so on. I like that level of reliability and I build my cars for it whether they race or not.
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Last edited by niznai; 09-26-2012 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:57 AM   #17583
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Originally Posted by marcos graveyar View Post
Do you guys find the fit of the bearings in the spur gear and the counter gear woeful ?
i've seen it a couple of times..but I always found its fixable because the bearing aren't seated all the way in

I had a buddy's car apart and couldn't figure out what was wrong - swapped both gears and still had the same crap...them I took my trusty Tamiya box wrench and pushed on the bearings and finally seated them correctly...no more wobble

maybe that's the case with yours?
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:25 AM   #17584
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Originally Posted by marcos graveyar View Post
Do you guys find the fit of the bearings in the spur gear and the counter gear woeful ?
Which version of the gears: black or white? The molds were very slightly different between the two. Bearings tend to be a tiny bit loose in the white versions. The newer reinforced/black gears seem to be a tiny bit more precise.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:32 AM   #17585
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My black gears are worse for the bearings than the white ones.
Now I am using a mix of counter black and white spur

chears
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:38 PM   #17586
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
Don't take to heart everything said on an internet forum.

I have the sensitivity of an anvil, not that easily offended, hehehehe! How do you offend an anvil, by the way?

I already have the option hingepins, but I didn't think of that solution, thank you. I did remember that was how I fixed stripped threads in plastic (and then the plastic cracked and so on). There's never an easy way out of a tight spot.

As for the axle bearings, perhaps you don't do them up tight enough. The plastic hexes have a little shoulder that is supposed to bottom out on the inner bearing race at the same time as pin bottoms out in its slot, but I found that more often than not it pushes against the bearing, especially when the hex is starting to get tired and more so when it is cracked as you say. This is how I started using the spacers.

Racing TC I also found that a sideswipe to the boards or another car can put enough of a shock to the bearings that they become gritty and I hate that. This way, both bearings take the shock of such an incident, hopefully allowing both to survive. Not sure if it works, but at least the driveshaft is not rammed in the diff outdrive (very important when your driveshafts are at the bottom of the outdrive as your car corners at full lock with the suspension under full travel.

Academics, really.

But I have to say in my defense I never had any of those stupid problems any racer has experienced at one time or another like losing a wheel nut and then a wheel, or balljoints popping out and so on. I like that level of reliability and I build my cars for it whether they race or not.
Sorry about the anvil stuff. Glad you liked the hinge pin solution, but to give credit where credit is due, Deven White came up with that one.

I just cannot bring myself to accept the need for a spacer between the bearings. If Tamiya parts are used, either kit or option, there is so much play between the hex and the bearing there is just no way the bearings could be squeezed together. If you place a shim that is much over 0.6mm thick, the wheel will not spin freely. I'll bet you that 99.999% of modelers would take out shims till the wheel spun freely. Therefor no squeezed bearings. You're probably right on the distributing load bit though.

I also tried to figure out how to make such spacer cause it would have to be very precise in width and square. Too short it's useless. Too long and the bearings won't seat. First, you would have to locate material to make this spacer. Next measure how wide to make which for me would be a problem. Then you'd have chuck the spacer material in a lathe and cut off the proper amount ---no lathe in my shop.

Just kiddin' you a bit, but really how would you make that spacer and meet the precise dimensional requirements.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:20 PM   #17587
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My black gears are worse for the bearings than the white ones.
Now I am using a mix of counter black and white spur

chears
Same here. For me it has to do with the newer black spurs being a fraction of an inch larger than the old white ones and not fitting the M-03 properly. I'm not sure if they made new molds or the contraction rate on the new, reinforced material is less than the old, but fitting the new spur so there is no interference takes too much effort.

I'm also holding a grudge, as I destroyed a brand new M-03 chassis and a few sets of gears figuring this out.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:44 AM   #17588
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Default Black gears

Same here. When the M06 came out, I threw the black gears into an M03, and they didn't work right. Made noises when spun. Never figured exactly why, but when put back in the '06, all was well ...
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:02 AM   #17589
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Here's a video of the mini A main from our local Tamiya Cup Finals in South Africa.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Last edited by Skitee; 09-27-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:01 AM   #17590
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Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Sorry about the anvil stuff. Glad you liked the hinge pin solution, but to give credit where credit is due, Deven White came up with that one.

I just cannot bring myself to accept the need for a spacer between the bearings. If Tamiya parts are used, either kit or option, there is so much play between the hex and the bearing there is just no way the bearings could be squeezed together. If you place a shim that is much over 0.6mm thick, the wheel will not spin freely. I'll bet you that 99.999% of modelers would take out shims till the wheel spun freely. Therefor no squeezed bearings. You're probably right on the distributing load bit though.

I also tried to figure out how to make such spacer cause it would have to be very precise in width and square. Too short it's useless. Too long and the bearings won't seat. First, you would have to locate material to make this spacer. Next measure how wide to make which for me would be a problem. Then you'd have chuck the spacer material in a lathe and cut off the proper amount ---no lathe in my shop.

Just kiddin' you a bit, but really how would you make that spacer and meet the precise dimensional requirements.
Don't be sorry. I loved it. You have real literary talent. No joke. I amuse myself with that. Brilliant. Sensitivity of an anvil, hehehehe!

I am not at home now, but I will check and hopefully find one car I can demonstrate on.

Oh, I use driveshafts (double cardan joints) by the way. But I seem to remember I had this problem with kit axles too.

Here's how I do it.

I break an old worn bearing of the same size. Take the inner race, cut it "close enough" thickness wise with a thin Dremel disc. I then put the ring in a hole of close diameter in a piece of flat bar of the thickness I need to end up with, place the flat bar with the ring inside on a hard flat surface, and take a piece of sandpaper (coarse) and "grind" it down. Test on the car, if it needs to be thinner, I add one shim of appropiate thickness under the ring (in the hole in the flat bar) and sand some more. When you get close, you swap to finer and finer sandpaper. I can get anything ground to any accuracy you want that way. And the squareness is guaranteed by the hole you stick it in being perpendicular to the flat bar and of very close diameter, so the ring can not wobble inside, as well as the bottom face of the bearing race (which of course is square). Also, the thickness is guaranteed by the flat bar which you simply can not sand down more than a fraction of a hunderdth of a millimetre (beyond measuring). Using the shims inside can basically afford you the accuracy of the shim. The sandpaper I usually glue (contact adhesive in spray can) to a flat piece of bar again. When it wears out, I just peel it off and replace.

But if I find a round bar of the right diameter lying about my shed, I jam the ring on it, stick it in my lathe chuck and spin it in reverse whilst with the dremel (clamped to the tool carrier) and with a cutting disc (thin, using the side) I grind the ring perfectly round and at the right thickness. Finish off with fine sandpaper.

Piece of piss, really.

And true, I use shims on the axles. Especially on Yokomo axles which allow adjustment of the track that way.

the end result is that my wheels spin freely with no play at all whatsoever.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:40 AM   #17591
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Originally Posted by Skitee View Post
Here's a video of the mini A main from our local Tamiya Cup Finals in South Africa.

http://youtu.be/Vl9C1A8pY_k
Nice track. I'm jealous!
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:10 PM   #17592
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Nice track. I'm jealous!
Yip we are lucky to have the track we do.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:38 PM   #17593
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Don't be sorry. I loved it. You have real literary talent. No joke. I amuse myself with that. Brilliant. Sensitivity of an anvil, hehehehe!

I am not at home now, but I will check and hopefully find one car I can demonstrate on.

Oh, I use driveshafts (double cardan joints) by the way. But I seem to remember I had this problem with kit axles too.

Here's how I do it.

I break an old worn bearing of the same size. Take the inner race, cut it "close enough" thickness wise with a thin Dremel disc. I then put the ring in a hole of close diameter in a piece of flat bar of the thickness I need to end up with, place the flat bar with the ring inside on a hard flat surface, and take a piece of sandpaper (coarse) and "grind" it down. Test on the car, if it needs to be thinner, I add one shim of appropiate thickness under the ring (in the hole in the flat bar) and sand some more. When you get close, you swap to finer and finer sandpaper. I can get anything ground to any accuracy you want that way. And the squareness is guaranteed by the hole you stick it in being perpendicular to the flat bar and of very close diameter, so the ring can not wobble inside, as well as the bottom face of the bearing race (which of course is square). Also, the thickness is guaranteed by the flat bar which you simply can not sand down more than a fraction of a hunderdth of a millimetre (beyond measuring). Using the shims inside can basically afford you the accuracy of the shim. The sandpaper I usually glue (contact adhesive in spray can) to a flat piece of bar again. When it wears out, I just peel it off and replace.

But if I find a round bar of the right diameter lying about my shed, I jam the ring on it, stick it in my lathe chuck and spin it in reverse whilst with the dremel (clamped to the tool carrier) and with a cutting disc (thin, using the side) I grind the ring perfectly round and at the right thickness. Finish off with fine sandpaper.

Piece of piss, really.

And true, I use shims on the axles. Especially on Yokomo axles which allow adjustment of the track that way.

the end result is that my wheels spin freely with no play at all whatsoever.
Yeah, that would work. Your explanation was clear and I could visualize each step. And, all of the tools and materials are in my shop except a lathe. But as you said, not essential. Fairly simple to do and does not seem to require any special skills. Cannot see myself doing it though.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:19 PM   #17594
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Yeah, that would work. Your explanation was clear and I could visualize each step. And, all of the tools and materials are in my shop except a lathe. But as you said, not essential. Fairly simple to do and does not seem to require any special skills. Cannot see myself doing it though.
So now you're saying I don't have special skillz?!

Yeah, it's a pretty pointless exercise. I probably wouldn't do it for minis if I was racing them because I would simply not have the time. TC cars I think benefit from that.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:49 AM   #17595
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So now you're saying I don't have special skillz?!

Yeah, it's a pretty pointless exercise. I probably wouldn't do it for minis if I was racing them because I would simply not have the time. TC cars I think benefit from that.
No, not saying that. Many people, probably most people, have special skills including the mentally deficient and insane. In fact I believe that much human behavior drifts from stupidity to insanity with lapses into "normalcy". Some is genius.

The question then becomes, "where in the range of human behavior does the making and use of axle bearing spacers lie".

The above was meant for your amusement and not meant as a "dig".
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