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Old 09-10-2012, 05:23 AM   #17491
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I need to replace my kit plastic front uprights on my M03. I would rather not have to, and spend the money on some batteries, a tricky diff or some uni's.

What is the quality of the 3Racing or Yeah racing uprights like? I'd love to keep it 100% Tamiya but the genuine uprights are 3x the price.
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:29 AM   #17492
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... but how did "tight" come to mean understeer?
Opposite of loose.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:35 AM   #17493
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That seems backwards to me. Oversteer would be tight, being able to turn into the apex and understeer would be loose pushing through the turn.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:03 AM   #17494
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That seems backwards to me. Oversteer would be tight, being able to turn into the apex and understeer would be loose pushing through the turn.
Unfortunately, you've got it backwards. Think of it this way. Push refers to the front of the car. Loose and tight refers to the behavior of the rear of the car. Hope this clarifies your confusion.

If you still feel you're correct, tune in to any NASCAR race and you'll hear the terms used repeatedly. You will rarely hear it used during an F-1 broadcast, so this may be a uniquely American term.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:38 AM   #17495
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I'm looking at it from the perspective of the steering, aka front wheels. Tight radius = over, loose radius = under.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:51 PM   #17496
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I'm looking at it from the perspective of the steering, aka front wheels. Tight radius = over, loose radius = under.
Basically correct. A car that runs a tighter radius than your steering input oversteers. One that runs a wider radius than the steering input understeers.

Where the apparent confusion centers around the terminology of what a "tight" car does. A "tight" car has more rear traction than the front so will understeer or push. A "loose" car has more front traction than rear so will oversteer.

Now, I did not invent the terminology or how the terms are commonly interpreted, but the explanations and definitions provided are the most commonly used both in R/C cars and full scale racing. No amount of discussion, explanation, etc. will change this.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:12 PM   #17497
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Good explanations Grandpa. Now please help me tune the rascal that exhibits one characteristic going into the turn, and the other coming out...
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:11 PM   #17498
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I find the car better with more weight forward, but it depends on track conditions. For a longer, lower-traction track I run L wheelbase (which builds up at about 58/42), for shorter, higher-traction tracks I might try the M-wheelbase which builds around 55/45.
Granpa or anyone else care to comment on weight distribution? Anyone ever balance their car to 50/50 and run it?
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:18 PM   #17499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
Now, I did not invent the terminology or how the terms are commonly interpreted, but the explanations and definitions provided are the most commonly used both in R/C cars and full scale racing. No amount of discussion, explanation, etc. will change this.
Translating between F1 and NASCAR (for example) is like trying to get jazz and orchestral musicians communicating well. The notes are there, but the interpretation is a whole different story.

Might be best to stick with universal terms like under or over steer.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:36 PM   #17500
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NASCAR is more like blowing on a jug and banging a pot with a wooden spoon Jim
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:10 PM   #17501
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Thanks for the replys on the pinion gears. Great info, ordered 2 sets today.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:46 PM   #17502
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Opposite of loose.
Fair enough.

Didn't know I sparked a debate but glad we've managed to translate english into emm, english? Little wonder non english speakers are confused.

I do think however that some of the explanation might be misleading. A couple of people have mentioned here the behaviour of front wheels vs the behaviour of the rear wheels which I am not quite comfortable with. I think a better view is to regard the car as a unit and the oversteer/understeering problem as one of balance rather than attribute it to one or the other of the wheel pairs. Understeer then becomes a behaviour where the grip balance is biased towards the rear end, which is not the same to say the rear end has too much grip. Maybe the front has too little? The consequence is that such a view (or the confusion induced by vague explanations such as "your rear end has too much grip") gives rise to wrong solutions such as trying to reduce grip where there is perceived to be too much. In my view grip is not the problem but rather the lack of it. I would focus efforts then in trying to bring the grip up where it is missing rather than reduce it where it is present.

My comments come from seeing here way too may threads that follow this line where people ask for solutions and they're instructed to reduce grip there or there by doing this or the other. A forum being what it is the solutions may or may not work for reasons we'll never know but I think more often than not people think they have found an algorithm they can apply without further thinking to achieve their goals.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:25 AM   #17503
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Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
Translating between F1 and NASCAR (for example) is like trying to get jazz and orchestral musicians communicating well. The notes are there, but the interpretation is a whole different story.

Might be best to stick with universal terms like under or over steer.
Actually, they communicate quite well. That is when they want to communicate.

This whole discussion was mainly about people trying to be difficult. I'm sorry to have gotten "sucked" in.

I'll give you an example. The handling on the car my good friend, Laguna Bozo, was talking about could be described in a number of ways.

1. The damned thing is pushy loose.
2. The car understeers on entry and oversteers on exit.
3. Unfortunately describing the behavior of the car in terms of front to rear balance is beyond my communication skills.

As you can see, #1 is for the "cave man", #2 is for the proper or "prissy", and #3 is for the more intellectual who love the sound of their own words. However all can communicate quite well given that an attempt is made.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:21 PM   #17504
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Dusted off my mini(havent driven it in 4 months) to see what kind of shape it was in. Under acceleration it pulls to the right...rather hard. It has to be the 3 racing diff? It stops pulling as soon as I get off the throttle. Thought it might be a bearing, or something binding in th front, or even the rear. But it only pulls under power so logic tells me loose diff.

I have had this problem before and the diff must be worn and I cant keep it to stay tight. want to try a solid axle in the front...how well do they work? will i loose any handleing? maybe go to a gear diff?

I posted and went through this probably 9 months ago...just my problem persists and looking for some fresh thoughts
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:33 PM   #17505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madulla View Post
NASCAR is more like blowing on a jug and banging a pot with a wooden spoon Jim
In my former life as a musician, I did both. Crap! I'm a rube!
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