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Old 08-18-2012, 09:22 AM   #17416
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Happy to help. I looked for a long time to find the body too. Here is mine all painted up...



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Very nice!

I plan to put a bit more effort than usual into painting the Alfa body. It deserves it.

What wheels are those? They are very scale looking, which I like on the Alfa.

I also have a HPI Datsun 510 & a VW Beetle body for my M06. Add a couple of Alfa bodies and I should be set for a while.
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Last edited by bencason; 08-18-2012 at 09:26 AM. Reason: left out a word or two :(
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:06 AM   #17417
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17.5 and TCS legal silver cans run very similar lap times at our tracks with the silver cans usually getting the faster lap times. Maybe because they weigh less?? Torque means nothing in a mini. Cars too light tires too small. Those that want to try 21.5, I hope you enjoy watching paint dry. I would not spend any $$ on a 21.5 motor (but I don't run F1). If your intention is to kill the brushless mini class, spec a 21.5 - have fun!! Brushless mini racing is WAAAYY cheaper than silver can over the long run - there's no debating the point.

The current TCS rules for brushless mini class are fine. You can get a cheap speedo and one b/l motor for the rest of your life and be fine in b/l mini TCS racing. Spec-ing another brushless system to make people spend more $$ over what they already have will hurt the class, but maybe, that's what people want.
Well said Shawn, all three TCS events that I attended the silver cans where typically almost Identical to the brushless. And yes at two of the events the silver cans were faster, not much but were faster.

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Old 08-19-2012, 07:35 AM   #17418
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Very nice!

I plan to put a bit more effort than usual into painting the Alfa body. It deserves it.

What wheels are those? They are very scale looking, which I like on the Alfa.

I also have a HPI Datsun 510 & a VW Beetle body for my M06. Add a couple of Alfa bodies and I should be set for a while.
They are the Tamiya wheels that come with the Alfa M06 kit. I got them off ebay.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:25 AM   #17419
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Questions?? Asphalt to carpet... tire question

The local track is converting from indoor asphalt [high traction] to CRC carpet. I have not run on carpet since the early '90s so I have no idea what tires will work on it.

I currently have a silver can powered, LWB M06 with Sweep 33s that hooks up nicely. I am building an M03, probably a SWB. I plan to move one of them to 17.5 brushless.

Will the Sweeps work on carpet or do I need to make some changes?
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:47 AM   #17420
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Originally Posted by bencason View Post
The local track is converting from indoor asphalt [high traction] to CRC carpet. I have not run on carpet since the early '90s so I have no idea what tires will work on it.

I currently have a silver can powered, LWB M06 with Sweep 33s that hooks up nicely. I am building an M03, probably a SWB. I plan to move one of them to 17.5 brushless.

Will the Sweeps work on carpet or do I need to make some changes?
Sweeps are very good on carpet. I don't know the right combo for an M-06, but on the M-05s we always run 25s on the rear and a 33s on the front - I've also run 25s and 40s on the front to get the balance right, and we also glue the sidewalls of the fronts to take away a bit of bite if necessary.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:19 PM   #17421
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Sweeps are very good on carpet. I don't know the right combo for an M-06, but on the M-05s we always run 25s on the rear and a 33s on the front - I've also run 25s and 40s on the front to get the balance right, and we also glue the sidewalls of the fronts to take away a bit of bite if necessary.
I had to glue the sidewalls of the front tires to avoid traction rolling. Since the car is so tail heavy [40%F - 60%R], you really need good traction for the the front or you push like mad. I have moved around components & added weight to get to the 40/60 split. I'm not sure how to improve on that.

It is good to know the Sweeps will work well on carpet. I was going to buy new tires as soon as I figured out what I needed since the current tires/wheels have been on for quite a while.

I assume the Sweeps will also work on the M03, right?

TCS is not an issue with either of these cars. If I decide to try TCS, I'll either switch bits on the M03 to be legal or buy a M05. Can't own too many Minis, right?
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:38 PM   #17422
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I guess this rule would cover an actual spool like in a Touring car since Tamiya does not make one for a mini.

But if you make one from the gear diff that comes with the car this would be legal? To clarify what i've done in my car, I've placed extra washers in the gear diff so when re-assembled the diff acts like a spool, very little to no diff action. I believe most people do this today correct?

I would hope this does not fall under Rule 4, and since it's not a hop-up part it would not fall under rule 3.

When i made this setup change to the car i immediately went .5sec faster on average.
Adding an extra shim or two to the Mini gear diff to "stiffen" the diff is a common practice and will pass tech. However, locking the damn thing up will not. A diff must act like a diff.

Several years ago, super tight diffs were in vogue, but not so much any more. You only need the diff to be tight enough that your car doesn't "diff out". A nice smooth diff, tight enough to control wheel spin is much better than a nearly locked up one. Also, how "tight" the diff is built depends on the track layout, surface, grip level, etc.

In fact, guys like Calvin have more than one built up diff to tailor their cars to the track they are racing.

Glad you found a technique that gave you a half a second. That's a really big deal.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:00 AM   #17423
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Sorry, but was only referring to a unique situation we have in the TCS series. In Mini, boosted escs are not used, but motors with variable timing are. Fortunately or unfortunately, a limited number of esc and motors are on the approved list. Under these conditions, the 17.5 is very much quicker than a silver can, but the 21.5 might be more in line. The performance difference between the 17.5 and the Silvercan are is so great that the two rarely run together. It seems to me that the Can and a 21.5 may be close enough together in performance to run together. Having not done so yet, this is merely a supposition. And I'm referring only to Minis.

How did you ever manage to go thru 10 Silvercans in 1 season of racing??? If you overgear, overheat or otherwise abuse any motor, you will destroy it. Too often, racers will gear a Can to a FDR of less than 4.0 and expect it to go faster. Not true. It just may be that you may have been trying to force a can to perform with a 21.5 in conditions not conducive for this to happen. Aren't B/L motors also unlikely to last if over geared or overheated????

Are B/L motors superior to the Silvercan????? By all means YES and in just about any way you could think except initial cost.

I bow to your better knowledge of TCS rules. Here, in Oz, it has not been run for yonks.

Easy to go through all those silvercans. I had brushes drop out of the holders, the comm gets smeared with crap, ruined by grit coming in and so on. Never bothered to pamper the motor when it's so cheap and my spare time is so dear. we were running them in TC though, not minis, so yes, the gearing probably varied a bit. Mine didn't seem to suffer from heat but I did use radiators.

Oh, and we were racing every week, five races a night five minutes each, pretty twisty track, indoor carpet. Oh, I won the season, by the way.

When we moved to BL, timing boosting was not yet out, but it came halfway through the season with Tekin's release of their speedos. That changed the game completely. Before then, 21.5 was clearly much better, perhaps because even though sensitive to temperatures, they can still take a hammering compared to silvercans.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:30 AM   #17424
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I bow to your better knowledge of TCS rules. Here, in Oz, it has not been run for yonks.

Easy to go through all those silvercans. I had brushes drop out of the holders, the comm gets smeared with crap, ruined by grit coming in and so on. Never bothered to pamper the motor when it's so cheap and my spare time is so dear. we were running them in TC though, not minis, so yes, the gearing probably varied a bit. Mine didn't seem to suffer from heat but I did use radiators.

Oh, and we were racing every week, five races a night five minutes each, pretty twisty track, indoor carpet. Oh, I won the season, by the way.

When we moved to BL, timing boosting was not yet out, but it came halfway through the season with Tekin's release of their speedos. That changed the game completely. Before then, 21.5 was clearly much better, perhaps because even though sensitive to temperatures, they can still take a hammering compared to silvercans.
Yeah, agree with you. BL has many advantages, the main one is that there is little variation in performance going from motor to motor. With a Silvercan a thousand rpm variation is not unusual depending on the care the motor received. And that's in Mini. What the TC and F1 guys do to it can only be classified as cruel and unusual punishment.

Nice work winning your series. We don't race much anymore only cause there just aren't that many races anymore here locally. In fact, I don't remember winning for several years now. Oh, I don't feel too bad about this. The group I race with has won the last 6 TCS National championships and we have 2 TCS TC champs who race Minis from time to time. I have tho, at one time or another, finished ahead of all of them, at one race or another. Unfortunately, haven't managed to finish ahead of all of them in one race.

Information in this group is freely passed from one to the other as are parts etc. I do post some of the info on this thread to assist some of the racers who may not know this stuff. Unfortunately, some of the set up tips only apply for TCS racers due to the Spec tire.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:15 AM   #17425
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You should probably know the 7520 version of that motor is not the standard silver can. 75 refers to the wire size and 20 to the number of turns. Silver cans are the 6527 model. The black can is a 23t. If I recall correctly, the wire number was around 72.
Thanks. here is the full spec from mabuchi themselves. Is there a numbering difference on the can visible?

http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-b...AT_ID=rs_540sh

I see now that my "register" on my "local" rc page has the Name right but i have used the wrong chart.

This one is neat for those who want to get really serious about tuning their Silver can. It really shows the importance of cooling.
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US...019/%28CCW+%29

Last edited by MatsNorway; 08-20-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:47 AM   #17426
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On the Mabuchi motors, the model is etched very faintly on the side of the can, but it's readable, usually. Johnson motors often (not always) have the model printed in blue ink, but can require a little detective work to narrow down the model.

Seeing how I've got time, a camera and a box of motors...

The first two pictures are Mabuchi 27 turn silver cans. the codes - TD048417 and TD049417 - are production batch numbers. They're not marked as a specific model otherwise.

The third picture is a Mabuchi 7520 (batch TD036Y21). It also has another number (contrast enhanced) that I'm fairly sure is a number for the end user. In this case, whoever made the vacuum I got this from.

The fourth picture is just for kicks. It's one of Doc Mertes' TCS legal Red Dots. Every one has a serial number engraved into it by the man himself! It's cool to have the artist's signature.




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Old 08-20-2012, 01:30 PM   #17427
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Made an error in my last post. If memory serves correctly, the local group here has only won the TCS Mini class the last 5 years and not the last 6. My apologies.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:45 PM   #17428
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Hi! Here's my M-05..
It started as stock and we're not yet done..

Our club are only strict with gearing, motor and a no-spool diff.
Aside from that, you're open to anything.









Thanks for looking!
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Old 08-20-2012, 03:27 PM   #17429
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Hi! Here's my M-05..
It started as stock and we're not yet done..

Our club are only strict with gearing, motor and a no-spool diff.
Aside from that, you're open to anything.









Thanks for looking!
Now that's a beautiful car.
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:05 PM   #17430
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Originally Posted by laNcE_08 View Post
Hi! Here's my M-05..
It started as stock and we're not yet done..

Our club are only strict with gearing, motor and a no-spool diff.
Aside from that, you're open to anything.

who's body post stiffeners are you using?? 3Racing's??
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