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Old 04-28-2012, 12:43 AM   #16996
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Originally Posted by DarrenSimpson View Post
if there is anyone that has concrete advice as to the best setup for brushless tamiya minis, we are listening.
We run brushless mini's here in Aus. We use the hobbywing 35a speed control and the 3000kv 13T. The combo is sensorless, but if you restrict the gearing of the cars (20T pinion with the standard gears for an m03/05 which is 5.8:1) you wont have issues with cogging. The system performs about the same as the black can's do, which would allow you a period to change over. These cost something like A$100-A$120 shipped, but can be had for cheaper depending on your source.

As a substitution maybe a 17.5 speedpassion cirtix setup could work? So long as you spec the entire system, not just 0 timing 17.5, should keep things cheap. The 17.5 might be a bit slow for mini with the 5.8 ratio. Might need to do some testing with that and the 13.5 system.

Diffs are open, and I understand your concern for cost, but if the rules are open then you can simply shim and use AW grease on the standard diff (ie basically free) for better performance, or if you want spend about A$25 on an oil diff that will last for ever.

Hop up wise its up to you, but we allow any tamiya hop up, or 3rd party version (tamiya must make it for the 3rd party version be legal). I guess what all this does is allow those with deep pockets to spend money if they want, but there's really only so much you can do to a mini with these rules until it simply wont go any faster.

Realistically, oil dampers, oil diff and a basic setup and your pretty much there.

Have a look at the VORTEC rules, or AARCMCC rules for mini. It's working pretty well here. We're getting about 18-20 entries for a club meeting in mini. Which is a lot for around here.
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:12 AM   #16997
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There is another option, although it seems you've run into issues (wear and tear) with it already, and that is to simply ban aftermarket diffs. If your club is running nothing but Tamiya parts and you want to keep it that way, you have to make the decision now. As I'd mentioned before, once you let the genie out of the bottle, it hard to get him back in there.

Now, my club runs pretty much the same sort of rules as VORTEC/AARCMCC: Run whatever aftermarket bits you want to, as long as the car is assembled as per the instruction manual and the gear ratio remains stock. We've done this because Tamiya hop-up parts are obscenely expensive and the aftermarket parts don't make the car go any faster. A 3Racing CVD axle is no better than it's Tamiya equivalent, so why pay 2 or 3 times the price?

As to diffs specifically, we're completely open. Run whatever you want. Open, spools, gears, balls, stuffed full of putty. As long as the gear ratio remains stock, there's no advantage.

Some feel that we've opened the door a bit too much and the class will suffer for it. I can see their point to a degree. New drivers come in and develop the belief that to go fast, you must have all the bling and it gets expensive for them. If they are wise, however, they'll really look at what the fast guys are doing. All that involves is good setup and good driving. No amount of bling will ever win against that.

As for the rest of it, we run a spec, zero timing Orca brushless system that's a dead match for a regular silver can, everyone runs 20T pinions, because they don't want to lose any speed and everyone runs Tamiya tires because they work well on our carpet.

I'd be happy to offer any further advice you might require. Send me a PM anytime.

Jim
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:35 AM   #16998
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Now, my club runs pretty much the same sort of rules as VORTEC/AARCMCC: Run whatever aftermarket bits you want to, as long as the car is assembled as per the instruction manual and the gear ratio remains stock. We've done this because Tamiya hop-up parts are obscenely expensive and the aftermarket parts don't make the car go any faster. A 3Racing CVD axle is no better than it's Tamiya equivalent, so why pay 2 or 3 times the price?

As to diffs specifically, we're completely open. Run whatever you want. Open, spools, gears, balls, stuffed full of putty. As long as the gear ratio remains stock, there's no advantage.
Hi Jim et al,

We've taken a similar stance regarding hopups at my local club WKRCC in the UK as we try to keep a friendly atmosphere and didn't want too many rules to wade through so we restricted gearing and motors and not a lot else.

However, things seem to be getting silly with some of the cars barely resembling the original cars with Spice wishbones and carbon shock towers etc. Obviously some of these allow for more setup tuning by moving shock positions etc and just reduces the level playing field that the M-Chassis class was meant to promote. I'd be interested in how you deal with these kind of hopups that aren't a like-for-like replacement?

Cheers
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:27 AM   #16999
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Finding the right balance between rules that maintain a level playing field and rules that spoil people's fun is difficult.

The CWIC (www.cmcc.org.uk) Mini Formula championship allowed any commercially available hop-up (except for chassis conversions) and was won by a car with only a handful of hop-ups from a basic M-05 (TRF shocks, alloy steering posts, 3Racing oil diff, anti-roll bars). The runners up car was a similar spec. Among the field were cars where you would struggle to find an original part outside of the chassis halves, but they had no advantage on the track.

The key to keeping performance even was the handout motor, this stops any "black magic" at home. We also ran open gearing because it is easier to scrutineer, and with the Saturn 20s you didn't even need to run the highest gear ratio available. One would assume that brushless gets rid of the "black magic" entirely, but it costs more than 10.

I believe that the CWIC has the balance of the rules right. The things that really matter (tyres and motor) are controlled, the details that depend on driver preference are not.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:45 PM   #17000
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2012 Mini Nationals Australia

A Final Videos

Leg 1 - http://youtu.be/ZLdXeEjzrII

Leg 2 - http://youtu.be/Qp7tgqNrWow

Leg 3 - http://youtu.be/5KYKmZovBOs
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:21 PM   #17001
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Nice!
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:30 PM   #17002
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Finding the right balance...
Cheers to that. You're doing it right.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:24 PM   #17003
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Originally Posted by tony gray View Post
2012 Mini Nationals Australia

A Final Videos

Leg 1 - http://youtu.be/ZLdXeEjzrII

Leg 2 - http://youtu.be/Qp7tgqNrWow

Leg 3 - http://youtu.be/5KYKmZovBOs
Good god. They look as quick as TC's! Are they standard gear sets in those?
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:45 AM   #17004
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standard gearsets, 20t pinion, 13t hobbywing setup and some awesome driving. The cars were all scruitineered. Funny thing was the standard mini was faster than the open class mini's driving on the same day.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:57 AM   #17005
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Interesting reading guys, and good to know that we are not the only ones in limbo about what to do for what.

We do have a very good brushed class at EECC and we are under pressure to allow the brushless for obvious reasons, and at the AGM brushless was allowed and looks good, but it seems so far there are issues with wear and tear using the cars from the brushed class in the bushless class with only the brushless changed.

We do allow third party option parts as a replacement to the parts that came with the car, and for the very same reason as above we allow makes other than tamiya too, tamiya stuff is good but pricey

Tyres are open, and the brushless drivers are experimenting to try and find good performance and wear as their Sgrips are worn in less than a meeting. We wouldn't want to go down the route of control tyre, although it works on carpet, and TC on asphalt, we may struggle to get everyone setup using tyre A if the track is too cold, too hot or too wet.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:24 PM   #17006
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The absolute best thing we EVER did was go brushless. It expanded the numbers immediately and the motor I used in my Open car at the Nationals on the weekend was the very first Hobbywing 13T we ever got. It's nearly 4 years old.....
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:18 AM   #17007
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I can only speak for carpet use but, I'm running an ezrun 8.5 with 60amp esc and I'm still on the same sweep tyres and gear set months later.
Although, at a recent meeting the fastest guy was using a 27t brushed! Very good driver as well.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:36 AM   #17008
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Hi Guys...

I'm running mo5 pro on out TCS series..

We are using hobby wing 17.5 motor and esc..

My question is which tamiya rubber tire and insert is good for semi grip carpet...

And if you guys have any set up tip, that will be great...

Thanks
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:14 PM   #17009
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Just have to brag and it's off topic... Bought myself a Mini Cooper. It's a 1996 modell with 1,3I engine. Going to pick it up tomorrow. Can't wait to get my hands on it!

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Old 05-07-2012, 05:12 PM   #17010
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Just have to brag and it's off topic... Bought myself a Mini Cooper. It's a 1996 modell with 1,3I engine. Going to pick it up tomorrow. Can't wait to get my hands on it!

Nice Sportpack mini! keep an eye on the wheel bearings with the 13" wheels. Injected is nice, I hope you have a mini specialist near by with diagnostic gear for it.
What's with the grill in the bonnet? air filter relocate?
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