1LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
12-30-2009, 09:17 AM
#7217
Also, there actually are a decent amount of people who have GTBs and Havoks. Like I said before the amount of fets is not going to make a difference when your drawing an average of like 12 amps. I would rather smooth the transition than make them buy a new esc, especially when it makes no difference. Timing makes a difference.
12-30-2009, 09:27 AM
#7218
OK, I just tested my Sport/Spec Havoc.
IF the sensor harness was connected prior to powering on the esc and the sensor harness is then disconnected the car rolls to a halt if the car was running or will not run if it wasn't. The red "neutral" led is lit with throttle at neutral, the red and green led's are lit if the throttle is applied which corresponds with the troubleshooting codes in the instructions for all the Havoc models (just looked 'em up on the Novak site). Car goes right back to normal function as soon as the sensor bundle is plugged back in.
IF the sensor harness was not connected prior to powering on the esc and you attempt to throttle it up I get a short shrill sound from the motor and moves a very short distance (in reverse, no less) about 2-3 teeth worth at the pinion then stops all activity and I released the throttle. In this case the red led is lit at neutral and the green led is lit at full throttle so there really isn't an "error code" displayed as such.
THEN, purely for scientific knowledge, I continued the test from the "sensor harness not initially plugged in" state. With a finger on both the motor and the esc heat sink to monitor temp I held the throttle. It tried to reverse (as before), stopped, then tried to go forward a similar "distance", stopped, then tried to go in reverse. The motor heated up and at about 10 seconds we saw a hint of smoke/foul "electric" stench and when the throttle was released the red and green led's flashed alternately (couldn't find what "error code" that indicates). Motor was fairly hot, esc heat sink had no heat at all. Was testing with the Crawler Edition motor so the motor doesn't have a temp sensor. When I plugged the harness back in everything ran apparently normally. I will test the car at the track Saturday to confirm no real damage has taken place.
That said, the car did not run in either situation and to create a situation where damage could occur I emulated the most boneheaded move possible when a car isn't moving/won't move and that was to mash the throttle to full-on and hold it there for 10 seconds. Even then I'm betting no permanent damage has occured, though I would not take it much further or it is very very likely damage would occur.
IF the sensor harness was connected prior to powering on the esc and the sensor harness is then disconnected the car rolls to a halt if the car was running or will not run if it wasn't. The red "neutral" led is lit with throttle at neutral, the red and green led's are lit if the throttle is applied which corresponds with the troubleshooting codes in the instructions for all the Havoc models (just looked 'em up on the Novak site). Car goes right back to normal function as soon as the sensor bundle is plugged back in.
IF the sensor harness was not connected prior to powering on the esc and you attempt to throttle it up I get a short shrill sound from the motor and moves a very short distance (in reverse, no less) about 2-3 teeth worth at the pinion then stops all activity and I released the throttle. In this case the red led is lit at neutral and the green led is lit at full throttle so there really isn't an "error code" displayed as such.
THEN, purely for scientific knowledge, I continued the test from the "sensor harness not initially plugged in" state. With a finger on both the motor and the esc heat sink to monitor temp I held the throttle. It tried to reverse (as before), stopped, then tried to go forward a similar "distance", stopped, then tried to go in reverse. The motor heated up and at about 10 seconds we saw a hint of smoke/foul "electric" stench and when the throttle was released the red and green led's flashed alternately (couldn't find what "error code" that indicates). Motor was fairly hot, esc heat sink had no heat at all. Was testing with the Crawler Edition motor so the motor doesn't have a temp sensor. When I plugged the harness back in everything ran apparently normally. I will test the car at the track Saturday to confirm no real damage has taken place.
That said, the car did not run in either situation and to create a situation where damage could occur I emulated the most boneheaded move possible when a car isn't moving/won't move and that was to mash the throttle to full-on and hold it there for 10 seconds. Even then I'm betting no permanent damage has occured, though I would not take it much further or it is very very likely damage would occur.
12-30-2009, 09:36 AM
#7219
Also, there actually are a decent amount of people who have GTBs and Havoks. Like I said before the amount of fets is not going to make a difference when your drawing an average of like 12 amps. I would rather smooth the transition than make them buy a new esc, especially when it makes no difference. Timing makes a difference.
Besides I'm just saying if Novak has a legitimate explanation as to how and why they can claim the Havoc Pro makes more speed than the Havok 2s then it shouldn't be allowed either.
12-30-2009, 09:48 AM
#7220
My question is to Novak, How do THEY claim that it makes more speed? Also the MAJORITY of us are running Tekins and LRPs and you don't seem to care about us having to buy new escs...
Besides I'm just saying if Novak has a legitimate explanation as to how and why they can claim the Havoc Pro makes more speed than the Havok 2s then it shouldn't be allowed either.
Besides I'm just saying if Novak has a legitimate explanation as to how and why they can claim the Havoc Pro makes more speed than the Havok 2s then it shouldn't be allowed either.
12-30-2009, 09:52 AM
#7221
If you have additional tech/performance questions about the Havoc 2S vs the Havoc Pro, you can address your questions to [email protected].
The Havoc Pro is a completely different esc than the Havoc 2S and is based on our GTB. The Havoc Pro uses different Mosfets, is rated for 3.5T motors (and above) and has an on-resistance of .0004 compared to the OR of the Havoc 2S at .0007. The Pro is more efficient and runs cooler because of the different transistors.
The performance difference between the two escs, when used with a 25.5T motor would probably be minimal.
The Havoc Pro is a completely different esc than the Havoc 2S and is based on our GTB. The Havoc Pro uses different Mosfets, is rated for 3.5T motors (and above) and has an on-resistance of .0004 compared to the OR of the Havoc 2S at .0007. The Pro is more efficient and runs cooler because of the different transistors.
The performance difference between the two escs, when used with a 25.5T motor would probably be minimal.
12-30-2009, 10:01 AM
#7222
We, here at Novak, have been in contact with Rob offering ideas about what we could provide to help level the playing field in the Vintage Trans Am series. Our concern--long term--is making affordable (understandable..
) products available to attract new customers to both the R/C hobby, and also this series.
Here is the overview of our proposed TeamNovak/VTA program:
~ Offer the Havoc 2S/25.5 Spec System priced (in our store) at 129.99---lowest price offered for any Novak customized, Spec system.
~ Special Vintage Trans Am section in our store including the 25.5 systems, components, accessories and service items geared towards the series racers.
~ VTA 25.5T motors, both SS Pros and Ballistics. will be offered with a blue sleeve, rather than the standard color sleeve.
~ We will add the SS Pro 25.5 motor to our Service Options program, so those with Novak motors can exchange them for the blue-sleeved, VTA motors for 39.00 plus 5.00.
~ I will start a thread here on R/C Tech, so that series members can ask questions about the electronics/accessories, etc. we offer (I have a difficult time tracking Novak questions in this master VTA thread....
)
~ Establish, dealer-direct pricing for our new Havoc 2S/25.5 Spec System, SS Pro 25.5 motor (VTA version) and Ballistic 25.5 (VTA version) so that your LHSs can support and help this series grow.
) products available to attract new customers to both the R/C hobby, and also this series.Here is the overview of our proposed TeamNovak/VTA program:
~ Offer the Havoc 2S/25.5 Spec System priced (in our store) at 129.99---lowest price offered for any Novak customized, Spec system.
~ Special Vintage Trans Am section in our store including the 25.5 systems, components, accessories and service items geared towards the series racers.
~ VTA 25.5T motors, both SS Pros and Ballistics. will be offered with a blue sleeve, rather than the standard color sleeve.
~ We will add the SS Pro 25.5 motor to our Service Options program, so those with Novak motors can exchange them for the blue-sleeved, VTA motors for 39.00 plus 5.00.
~ I will start a thread here on R/C Tech, so that series members can ask questions about the electronics/accessories, etc. we offer (I have a difficult time tracking Novak questions in this master VTA thread....
)~ Establish, dealer-direct pricing for our new Havoc 2S/25.5 Spec System, SS Pro 25.5 motor (VTA version) and Ballistic 25.5 (VTA version) so that your LHSs can support and help this series grow.
That will be awesome!
12-30-2009, 10:08 AM
#7223
My question is to Novak, How do THEY claim that it makes more speed? Also the MAJORITY of us are running Tekins and LRPs and you don't seem to care about us having to buy new escs...
Besides I'm just saying if Novak has a legitimate explanation as to how and why they can claim the Havoc Pro makes more speed than the Havok 2s then it shouldn't be allowed either.
Besides I'm just saying if Novak has a legitimate explanation as to how and why they can claim the Havoc Pro makes more speed than the Havok 2s then it shouldn't be allowed either.
I will have to buy a new esc.
At the most, you will have to spend $129, and that includes the brand new motor, which is still less than just a brand new Tekin or LRP esc only.
If this is such a problem for you, is this the right class for you? This is trying to be a different type of class. We are attempting to put a lid on the speeds. In this fashion, you will be asked to use equipment your competitors know are within a certain parameter, i.e. no timing advance possible.
After we asked everyone to turn off the boost in our local series, the cars got closer again, regardless of the esc. The number of fets was not the factor, as we had different companies escs. The timing is the factor.
12-30-2009, 10:17 AM
#7227
Cool, I just got a Havoc and thought it would look nicer with something half the size.(tool makers minds like to wander) I'll see is something official is available from Novak separately, otherwise I have some cool ideas for a trick low-pro heat sink.
12-30-2009, 10:25 AM
#7229
If the demand is high, we can have quantities of the Havoc LP/HS made for us. We still have thousands of the GTB-4cell cooling plates sitting in our inventory.....
By the way, the GTB-4 cell plate fits our Havoc Pro controller.