U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
#6721
Tech Champion
iTrader: (38)
Let's not get carried away. It's still all about driving and the cream always rises to the top. Unfortunately because people believe that is why there is the backlash against the class in places. A lot of locals here embraced this class because they were lead to believe they could suddenly compete and win. When better drivers joined the class and they were getting put laps down it was suddenly "they are cheating with better equipment" even though they weren't. By the end of the outdoor season the class was half of what it was because people quit. Either because they weren't winner or got tired of falsely being accused of cheating.
#6722
Tech Champion
iTrader: (38)
on the flip side our spec Slash class did have the most unique winners throughout the season and really anyone from the middle of the pack to the top had a chance to win. People still learning obviously had no chance but the racing was a lot closer than the VTA racing.
#6723
Tech Champion
iTrader: (30)
Let's not get carried away. It's still all about driving and the cream always rises to the top. Unfortunately because people believe that is why there is the backlash against the class in places. A lot of locals here embraced this class because they were lead to believe y could suddenly compete and win. When better drivers joined the class and they were getting put laps down it was suddenly "they are cheating with better equipment" even though they weren't. By the end of the outdoor season the class was half of what it was because people quit. Either because they weren't winner or got tired of falsely being accused of cheating.
but the odd thing is - the class at my track grew, even with this talk..
I would love to know HOW a local track is supposed to tech for the speedo BS?? I know my track will not be teching for this absolute bull-crap
do we wanna slow the class back down? yes, but there's gotta be a better way then speedo talk...try raising the freaking gear ratio - like no lower then 6.0 or something crazy high like that....a FDR that high should help minimize the effects/benefits of turbos/boosts - has anyone done testing like that? or has it always been 'get rid of new technology'...
not everyone new driver/BL-convert is going to drop the money on a 'entry-level' novak system because they might 'dual-purpose' their chassis and that would mean 2 different esc setup instead of just 2 motors...so let technology go and mechanically limit speed...
i can think of so many more negative things to say about all the whining, but i think i'll use me head and leave it at this....
#6724
Tech Master
iTrader: (11)
do we wanna slow the class back down? yes, but there's gotta be a better way then speedo talk...try raising the freaking gear ratio - like no lower then 6.0 or something crazy high like that....a FDR that high should help minimize the effects/benefits of turbos/boosts - has anyone done testing like that? or has it always been 'get rid of new technology'...
Our RD has been working with layouts that take away or at least diminish the benefits of the newer speedos. Our previous layout had a section everyone started to call the Tekin section because of the very noticeable advantage there. His new layout is actually a faster layout but the Tekin drivers are having a hard time finding their advantage other than a few feet. Careful planning of the layout seems to be our best equalizer so far.
Last edited by padailey; 11-24-2009 at 10:01 AM.
#6725
Tech Champion
iTrader: (2)
any race reports??????????????
I think alot of good points have come out of this healty discussion about VTA,esc,fdr,pro...ect...there are many ways to adjust the slowing the cars down method...lets all do some trail and error and report back to the USVTA..remember you need good info....
Im running my TC5r...box stock setup...LRP SPX on Pro 1, at 5.0 fdr...on a 95x45 med-high carpet track.....average laps around 14.0 as low as 13.3...Im racing against med to fast guys running everything from....009's with SPX to TC3's with GTB's...and Im pretty fast and we stay pretty close when its clean...of course wrecks causes lap times to increase....
I think we will do some 5.5 fdr to 6.0 fdr to see where we compare to the GTB's with a fast guy driving it...maybe do some drag racing down the straight....
what you guys got....
I think alot of good points have come out of this healty discussion about VTA,esc,fdr,pro...ect...there are many ways to adjust the slowing the cars down method...lets all do some trail and error and report back to the USVTA..remember you need good info....
Im running my TC5r...box stock setup...LRP SPX on Pro 1, at 5.0 fdr...on a 95x45 med-high carpet track.....average laps around 14.0 as low as 13.3...Im racing against med to fast guys running everything from....009's with SPX to TC3's with GTB's...and Im pretty fast and we stay pretty close when its clean...of course wrecks causes lap times to increase....
I think we will do some 5.5 fdr to 6.0 fdr to see where we compare to the GTB's with a fast guy driving it...maybe do some drag racing down the straight....
what you guys got....
#6727
Tech Regular
iTrader: (31)
Let's not get carried away. It's still all about driving and the cream always rises to the top. Unfortunately because people believe that is why there is the backlash against the class in places. A lot of locals here embraced this class because they were lead to believe they could suddenly compete and win. When better drivers joined the class and they were getting put laps down it was suddenly "they are cheating with better equipment" even though they weren't. By the end of the outdoor season the class was half of what it was because people quit. Either because they weren't winner or got tired of falsely being accused of cheating.
Last edited by Racer X79; 11-24-2009 at 11:11 AM.
#6729
Tech Master
iTrader: (12)
You kind of prove my point and then you sort of missed my point. The class is all about driving and set up, not about equipment. Any local driver that has good driving skills and set up skills CAN compete and win against any other driver in the country in VTA, it has been proven. It needs to get explained to the lower skilled driver why they're getting beat and where they need to improve and they'll most likely understand.
If your new and everyone has told you that this class is about skill and set up not equipment, then you hit the track and on that straight, which is a drag race- no skill or set up involved- you get blow away you're going to wonder why.
Then you find out that person had a high dollar ESC, you walk away with a feeling that the speech about skill and set up was bullshit and equipment does matter.
#6730
Tech Champion
iTrader: (38)
You kind of prove my point and then you sort of missed my point. The class is all about driving and set up, not about equipment. Any local driver that has good driving skills and set up skills CAN compete and win against any other driver in the country in VTA, it has been proven. It needs to get explained to the lower skilled driver why they're getting beat and where they need to improve and they'll most likely understand.
#6731
Tech Champion
iTrader: (38)
Just for the record, I don't mind the current rules. Im one of the fast guys in the class so no difference to me. I do think the "spirit of vta" is hypocritical to the rules though. First, the 3 power plant options are no where close to equal. If you aren't running lipo / BL then you aren't going to come close to winning. On top of that there is so much disparity between the different BL options you must have the latest ESC to win (even without turbo - a tekin with v198 is faster than a havoc). If USVTA wanted to keep the cost of the class down I really think a spec brushed motor with a light FDR is required or you gotta spec the ESC and motor. Otherwise its just 21.5 rubber TC with a spec tire/body.
#6732
Tech Regular
iTrader: (31)
That's exactly where the non-turbo rule comes in. Take away the boost and it's pretty even. I only race on indoor carpet tracks (small to large) so that's where my point of view comes from. All I can say that I've run a GTB from day 1 and I don't see a issue anymore with the new rule in place. Maybe huge outdoor tracks are diffrent, but then the race director needs to step in.
#6733
Tech Regular
iTrader: (31)
I think my response was very clear and I meant what I said. People need to stop saying that anyone can compete in this class because its not true. People are lead to believe that and then have hurt feelings when they don't finish in the top 5 still. I can point you to a 20 page long thread on our tracks forum with a bunch of hurt feelings on it. The drivers in VTA finish in the exact same order they do in our TC classes and by about the same distance off. Under the current rules its a racing class just like rubber TC just with different style body and wheels.
#6734
Tech Champion
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Just for the record, I don't mind the current rules. Im one of the fast guys in the class so no difference to me. I do think the "spirit of vta" is hypocritical to the rules though. First, the 3 power plant options are no where close to equal. If you aren't running lipo / BL then you aren't going to come close to winning. On top of that there is so much disparity between the different BL options you must have the latest ESC to win (even without turbo - a tekin with v198 is faster than a havoc). If USVTA wanted to keep the cost of the class down I really think a spec brushed motor with a light FDR is required or you gotta spec the ESC and motor. Otherwise its just 21.5 rubber TC with a spec tire/body.
Unfortunately raising the FDR will probably make the "timing" speedos have even more of an advantage. We have been running a 5.0 FDR restriction and it didn't really slow down the lap times but made it a little easier for the less skilled drivers... thus closer racing. However the Tekin guys have the fastest cars and most are running 5.7 or so FDR's. Yes as has been mentioned skill matters and the Tekins don't always win but they definitely have faster cars. I have tried running 6.0 and it is definitely slower... but a GTB at 6.0 vs an RS (with boost and turbo) at 6.0 aren't even close.
Our RD has been working with layouts that take away or at least diminish the benefits of the newer speedos. Our previous layout had a section everyone started to call the Tekin section because of the very noticeable advantage there. His new layout is actually a faster layout but the Tekin drivers are having a hard time finding their advantage other than a few feet. Careful planning of the layout seems to be our best equalizer so far.
Our RD has been working with layouts that take away or at least diminish the benefits of the newer speedos. Our previous layout had a section everyone started to call the Tekin section because of the very noticeable advantage there. His new layout is actually a faster layout but the Tekin drivers are having a hard time finding their advantage other than a few feet. Careful planning of the layout seems to be our best equalizer so far.
Really this whole discussion about ESC's and everything else is just like anything else these days everyone has their own idea and their idea is best idea out there and will talk or type until their fingers fall off. When in reality Rob will try everything first and then do what’s best for the class...like it or not. He’s not going to just pull something out of the air and make a change to the rules unless he sees a real benefit to them for the long run. So if its 25.5 Novak motors with a spec Novak ESC or a 13.5 1 cell lipo or what ever it is it will be tested and sorted out to be the best option for the class.
#6735
Tech Elite
iTrader: (54)
if u have enough racers ...why not divide into two classes by skill level & equipment?
if u have 10 racers or more u should have two classes so the slow guys actaully feel the "spirit of VTA" every heat and main would be funner for both novice and pro
this coming from a slow guy
if u have 10 racers or more u should have two classes so the slow guys actaully feel the "spirit of VTA" every heat and main would be funner for both novice and pro
this coming from a slow guy