1LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
11-09-2011, 03:00 PM
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (84)
allows brand new VTA car owners to show up and race with a box-stock HPI Sprint 2 Sport '69 Camaro. Once they get good enough at driving their Sprint 2 (i.e. they can finish in the top 3 in a qualifier) then they are expected to upgrade their car and make it conform to the U.S. VTA Rules.
11-09-2011, 03:41 PM
11-09-2011, 03:47 PM
The sprint 2 sport looks like a pretty decent deal and the idea of a newcomers class is damned good BUT...I still find it odd that ,with the used market being the way it is, we would suggest any newbie have to spend $250 to get a car that will have a very short usable life and isn't really worth sinking more in to. Nothing at all against the car but IF we really want to propose a good "starter" segment of VTA, why wouldn't we propose that a newbie find a used chassis and then outfit it with newcomer class electronics like a can motor, a cheap brushed motor esc and NMH batteries. Radios can be anything from FM to AM to 2.4ghz. Figure $150 to $175 for chassis, $20 for motor, $50 for esc , $40 for battery and lets say $100 for radio. Now these figures are my best guess ON THE HIGH SIDE based on my own experience. Debate them if you will. Comparable pricing to the Sprint BUT you now have a chassis with a far better life span and possibly even a radio with the same.
I can't speak for other clubs but mine emphasizes that WE WILL HELP new drivers get involved the best, most affordable way. I know selling Sprint 2's may help the shop but in the long run it's really about the driver who stays involved to continue buying stuff from the shop and support the track. Yes, $250 isn't a bad start but it's the hit they take later on that tends to piss them off. Especially with young drivers where the parents are footing the bill.
And while i'm on my high horse.....we all need to learn how to better answer that deadly question that all newcomers have...."What does something like that cost ?"
I can't speak for other clubs but mine emphasizes that WE WILL HELP new drivers get involved the best, most affordable way. I know selling Sprint 2's may help the shop but in the long run it's really about the driver who stays involved to continue buying stuff from the shop and support the track. Yes, $250 isn't a bad start but it's the hit they take later on that tends to piss them off. Especially with young drivers where the parents are footing the bill.
And while i'm on my high horse.....we all need to learn how to better answer that deadly question that all newcomers have...."What does something like that cost ?"
11-09-2011, 03:59 PM
I think most of the people that come wanting to race that get directed to the Sprint 2 are people that dont even know this place exists or even what all is needed for a complete car also whats good and bad. Its a good "starter" car I think especially for the VTA class. A lot of new comers my see a list of items and web sites as overwhelming and decide its over their head. I wish a company or 2 would make a box stock USVTA legal car at a competitive price. Throw a crystal radio in as well as a semi cheap lipo. So average joe could buy 1 thing and be able to race the same as everyone else. But right now the Sprint 2 is the closest to that we have to offer them.
11-09-2011, 04:08 PM
Perhaps the one thing that most of you is overlooking is that most tracks are attached to hobby shops. Tracks alone don't really make much money, not enough to keep the doors open and the lights on.
On used equipment for the newbie, the shops make $0.
On a Sprint 2, the shop makes enough money to operate your track for you for a few days.
Don't believe me? Ask your retailer the next time that you go race how much it REALLY costs him to run the race that day, and then how much is costs to keep the doors open and lights on for all the days that you're NOT there and NOT racing. The honest answer will surprise you.
I used to be the night manager of a local gun shop/gun range here, where guns sell as fast and as much as a gallon of gasoline or a bottle of water. We charged CRAZY prices for range time and would have lines out the door with people waiting for hours to pay for an hour of range time. At the end of the month, without gun sales (also at CRAZY stupid prices, but couldn't keep inventory up with sales!!!!) there was simply no way to operate the range at a profit (and this in a 20 year old building that was paid for!). The owner of my local track says the very same business model exists with every track he's ever seen or heard tell of in teh last 20 years......without an alternate revenue source, a plain track simply can't make it financially without a hobby shop selling planes, trains, helis, and basher-mobiles unless the owner is a lottery winner.
Bottom line, most 'tracks' aren't tracks at all, but for profit buisness hobby shops that happen to have a core group of racers that (at best) help the shop break even on their own entertainment.
And THAT is why they sell a Sprint 2 and allow it in a 'newbie' class. Unless you throw the bait out there, you ain't never, ever gonna hook 'em!
On used equipment for the newbie, the shops make $0.
On a Sprint 2, the shop makes enough money to operate your track for you for a few days.
Don't believe me? Ask your retailer the next time that you go race how much it REALLY costs him to run the race that day, and then how much is costs to keep the doors open and lights on for all the days that you're NOT there and NOT racing. The honest answer will surprise you.
I used to be the night manager of a local gun shop/gun range here, where guns sell as fast and as much as a gallon of gasoline or a bottle of water. We charged CRAZY prices for range time and would have lines out the door with people waiting for hours to pay for an hour of range time. At the end of the month, without gun sales (also at CRAZY stupid prices, but couldn't keep inventory up with sales!!!!) there was simply no way to operate the range at a profit (and this in a 20 year old building that was paid for!). The owner of my local track says the very same business model exists with every track he's ever seen or heard tell of in teh last 20 years......without an alternate revenue source, a plain track simply can't make it financially without a hobby shop selling planes, trains, helis, and basher-mobiles unless the owner is a lottery winner.
Bottom line, most 'tracks' aren't tracks at all, but for profit buisness hobby shops that happen to have a core group of racers that (at best) help the shop break even on their own entertainment.
And THAT is why they sell a Sprint 2 and allow it in a 'newbie' class. Unless you throw the bait out there, you ain't never, ever gonna hook 'em!
11-09-2011, 04:18 PM
OFNA JL 10e GT Electric Sedan Kit (ARR)
[OFN34720]
****Low*Price:*$119.99*
Let the noobs buy cheap brushed electronics, probably stuff other local racers have laying around, I bet it could be done for about $200.
I too don't understand why you would require tread patterns if theres no advantage. Spec classes should be run with the spec parts until they break or offer some kind of advantage. Who cares what the tire tread looks like, it's a race not a concourse show. For the most part, on road racing is DEAD. Why on Earth would you chase a racer off for the mere appearence of something?
[OFN34720]
****Low*Price:*$119.99*
Let the noobs buy cheap brushed electronics, probably stuff other local racers have laying around, I bet it could be done for about $200.
I too don't understand why you would require tread patterns if theres no advantage. Spec classes should be run with the spec parts until they break or offer some kind of advantage. Who cares what the tire tread looks like, it's a race not a concourse show. For the most part, on road racing is DEAD. Why on Earth would you chase a racer off for the mere appearence of something?
11-09-2011, 04:41 PM
The reason the Sprint 2 is good for newbs is that they don't have to do anything except know that they are buying a complete RTR car from a reputable company. Tell them to go surf eBay and message board classifieds for all the used equipment they'll need and it will scare them off.
I'm always thinking about this stuff too... how to get newbies involved in a way that doesn't overwhelm them. Here's an idea, what if the experienced racers and clubs with the resources that are REALLY into this hobby started putting together complete RTR cars for VTA and selling them at a fixed price point of around $250 in an exclusive thread dedicated to RTR VTA? You wouldn't be doing this for a profit, just to break even and put your skills to work in a productive manner. Think about it... we all know how to look for a deal in the classified threads and find bargains on used equipment. I'm constantly surfing for a good deal just for the enjoyment of it even though I don't need a thing and already have way more TC3s than I can drive at one time. And I know there are plenty of you out there like me! Then when a newb asks you how to get started, you just give him/her the URL to the thread. Wouldn't that be cool. I'm going forward with this idea myself. I just picked up a Factory Team TC3 on eBay for $86 shipped with pretty decent VTA tires already on it. I have a friend that's been asking me about getting started and I'm planning to put it together for him. Haven't broke the news to him yet so I hope he buys it. If not, it could be the first car for sale in this new hypothetical thread.
I'm always thinking about this stuff too... how to get newbies involved in a way that doesn't overwhelm them. Here's an idea, what if the experienced racers and clubs with the resources that are REALLY into this hobby started putting together complete RTR cars for VTA and selling them at a fixed price point of around $250 in an exclusive thread dedicated to RTR VTA? You wouldn't be doing this for a profit, just to break even and put your skills to work in a productive manner. Think about it... we all know how to look for a deal in the classified threads and find bargains on used equipment. I'm constantly surfing for a good deal just for the enjoyment of it even though I don't need a thing and already have way more TC3s than I can drive at one time. And I know there are plenty of you out there like me! Then when a newb asks you how to get started, you just give him/her the URL to the thread. Wouldn't that be cool. I'm going forward with this idea myself. I just picked up a Factory Team TC3 on eBay for $86 shipped with pretty decent VTA tires already on it. I have a friend that's been asking me about getting started and I'm planning to put it together for him. Haven't broke the news to him yet so I hope he buys it. If not, it could be the first car for sale in this new hypothetical thread.
11-09-2011, 05:13 PM
Another cost cutter for local clubs could be to allow alternative motors for beginners, breaking them out into a separate class if the numbers allow. I'm not suggesting a rules change... so not going there. But allowing the stock can from the Sprint 2 for beginners as previously mentioned I think is a good idea to get more people involved. HobbyPartz also carries a Tacon 25T sensorless motor that would probably match up with the Novaks just fine for about $30. Couple that with a 25 amp Hobbywing speed control and you have a complete new power system for under $60 with free shipping. Of course, it would always have to be emphasized that this is for beginners looking to try it out and it would be better to get the right stuff from the get go. At least would give some cheaper options to someone just getting started. And the regulars advising the newbs should always be stressing the national rule set and the added cost to eventually get their car into compliance. The clubs/tracks allowing the rule modifications would have to enforce the "beginner" rules with an iron fist as well so things don't start getting out-of-control. It's all just "food for thought" but seems like a discussion worth having until one of the big car makers out there finally decides to hammer out a deal with Novak to produce an RTR VTA. Or since Novak stands to benefit, maybe they should hammer out a deal with a car manufacturer to produce a Novak branded RTR VTA.
11-09-2011, 05:38 PM
Speaking of RTR VTA. Here's a couple of clean cars ready to go... http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...pm-rr603s.html.
11-09-2011, 05:48 PM
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (84)
on the non-compliant cars / alternatives for beginners:
we allow a one race grace period on slightly non-compliant cars. We don't want to send people home because they don't have number stickers or the driver figure is missing or not painted - we let them run and tell them to fix it for next time.
Heck, our last VTA race we had a guy with a non-VTA body, X-pattern tires, an old tired 27t brushed motor and a generic stick pack (still had the tamiya connectors on it even!). We could have sent him home but instead he ran with us, had a good time, and got the opportunity to talk to several of our VTA racers. He knows what he has to change to be in spec for next time; and we are pretty rigid on the one race grace period.
The one race grace period has served us well. Give new new guys a bit of help and a chance, and they just might come back.
we allow a one race grace period on slightly non-compliant cars. We don't want to send people home because they don't have number stickers or the driver figure is missing or not painted - we let them run and tell them to fix it for next time.
Heck, our last VTA race we had a guy with a non-VTA body, X-pattern tires, an old tired 27t brushed motor and a generic stick pack (still had the tamiya connectors on it even!). We could have sent him home but instead he ran with us, had a good time, and got the opportunity to talk to several of our VTA racers. He knows what he has to change to be in spec for next time; and we are pretty rigid on the one race grace period.
The one race grace period has served us well. Give new new guys a bit of help and a chance, and they just might come back.
11-09-2011, 06:01 PM
Our track allows a 3 race day grace period for new people to get legal. They only run every other weekend so thats 6 weeks to get legal. Plenty enough time.
11-09-2011, 06:52 PM
Like a lot of guys have said, there's no reason to run off new people. I think that the rules are there for a very good reason, but you have to cut people some slack when they first show up. That's the sort of thing that keeps people involved.
As far as the tires, on carpet they last a really long time. In fact, when they start going bald the cars usually want to start traction rolling. So guys out here save them for asphalt, where they are perfect. Asphalt is a lot harder on tires, so it's pretty much a run them till they explode thing. For the most part, the tire deal takes care of itself.
That being said, a ground down tire is fairly obvious, since tires that are worn out will usually be softer due to tire sauce, and the "wear" factor is much different than a ground tire.
As far as the tires, on carpet they last a really long time. In fact, when they start going bald the cars usually want to start traction rolling. So guys out here save them for asphalt, where they are perfect. Asphalt is a lot harder on tires, so it's pretty much a run them till they explode thing. For the most part, the tire deal takes care of itself.
That being said, a ground down tire is fairly obvious, since tires that are worn out will usually be softer due to tire sauce, and the "wear" factor is much different than a ground tire.
11-09-2011, 08:11 PM
Like a lot of guys have said, there's no reason to run off new people. I think that the rules are there for a very good reason, but you have to cut people some slack when they first show up. That's the sort of thing that keeps people involved.
As far as the tires, on carpet they last a really long time. In fact, when they start going bald the cars usually want to start traction rolling. So guys out here save them for asphalt, where they are perfect. Asphalt is a lot harder on tires, so it's pretty much a run them till they explode thing. For the most part, the tire deal takes care of itself.
That being said, a ground down tire is fairly obvious, since tires that are worn out will usually be softer due to tire sauce, and the "wear" factor is much different than a ground tire.
As far as the tires, on carpet they last a really long time. In fact, when they start going bald the cars usually want to start traction rolling. So guys out here save them for asphalt, where they are perfect. Asphalt is a lot harder on tires, so it's pretty much a run them till they explode thing. For the most part, the tire deal takes care of itself.
That being said, a ground down tire is fairly obvious, since tires that are worn out will usually be softer due to tire sauce, and the "wear" factor is much different than a ground tire.
NEWCOMERS ADDENDUM:
If you have recently purchased a RTR HPI Sprint 2 from Mikes and are new to VTA we welcome you to race with us! You are welcome to use the car straight out of the box! Once you have finished in the top 3 during a qualifier or a main event where 4 or more people finished racing at Mike's, we expect that you will then bring your car into accordance with the rules above. The RTR HPI Sprint 2 will require a new lipo, motor, and ESC as listed above to be compliant.
When VTA was started at Mikes Hobby Shop in Carrollton, TX, they were a little more relaxed on the rules to get it started (any 25.5 motor, no mAh limit, 1450 grams and no driver figure required) but 90% of the rules are current VTA. All rules other than those 4 changes mirror national USVTA rules. Most of the cars running at Mikes are current national rules VTA legal except for driver figures. There is currently a discussion on bringing the local club rules 100% inline with the current National USVTA rules except that we will keep the newcomers addendum.
Last edited by GP40X; 11-09-2011 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Fumbel fingers
11-10-2011, 09:38 AM
Our club has a policy that if your car isn't legal per the rules, you aren't eligible for points, and if we go to a B main you aren't eligible to run in the A main. But you are welcome to run-whacha-brung until the car is legal.
11-10-2011, 10:14 AM
Like a lot of guys have said, there's no reason to run off new people. I think that the rules are there for a very good reason, but you have to cut people some slack when they first show up. That's the sort of thing that keeps people involved.
As far as the tires, on carpet they last a really long time. In fact, when they start going bald the cars usually want to start traction rolling. So guys out here save them for asphalt, where they are perfect. Asphalt is a lot harder on tires, so it's pretty much a run them till they explode thing. For the most part, the tire deal takes care of itself.
That being said, a ground down tire is fairly obvious, since tires that are worn out will usually be softer due to tire sauce, and the "wear" factor is much different than a ground tire.
As far as the tires, on carpet they last a really long time. In fact, when they start going bald the cars usually want to start traction rolling. So guys out here save them for asphalt, where they are perfect. Asphalt is a lot harder on tires, so it's pretty much a run them till they explode thing. For the most part, the tire deal takes care of itself.
That being said, a ground down tire is fairly obvious, since tires that are worn out will usually be softer due to tire sauce, and the "wear" factor is much different than a ground tire.
Thank you Rob for chiming in.