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Old 07-30-2010, 02:21 PM   #8911
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JLock you are 10000% right on the money. I cant even think of what this would be if Rob didnt allow for the choices that there are now. If there was no choices then it would be all out war in here. In the end its really simple....the rules are the rules meet them and be allowed or dont and not be allowed.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:24 PM   #8912
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The whole American based products doesn’t hold any water either. That Hyundai motor was probably produced or built in the USA and that Camaro was probably produced or built in Mexico or Canada so you tell me what’s more American? Does the name make it American? If something is packaged or partly assembled in America does that make it an American made product? Times have changed and using this whole American made ideology about the reason that your ESC is not allowed is just foolish fodder to get a rise out of people who don’t realize that not much is really 100% made in America any more.
Automotive is totally different than 1 ESC product. Sure you could breakdown the the components and find something imported, like the tin in the solder. Is the air we breathe really American? So now we have to say Tekin is an Earth made product, so not confuse with something not Earth made or upset other countries who wish to lay claim? Lets just erase borders and start over so not to offend. . .
Back to the reality of the discussion.

Tekin is American made. They are making efforts to allow their product to participate in a "Spec" series to help attract those who might have the RS and care not to step backwards buying something else. I know USVTA is my interest as a spec series. With the changes, more money to invest, the state of the economy, dwindling onroad racers, not sure if it is a right fit for me? Making rc investments, Tekin made sense for me due to it never going obselete. I expect to still have my Tekin running after 5 years, what other companies can claim that with their ESC?

Tekin is in business to sell ESCs. Jim has an interest in creating something for everyone. What is wrong with having one ESC that can run in anything or everything with the right software? They should be given a chance, at least tell them what they can do to allow their controllers.

Then again it is one class that people can decide to support or not support.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:29 PM   #8913
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Although how do you work around tracks that only allow V200 software instead of V203?

With the annoying blinky lights (not really annoying, just easy to spot) what are your limits to that mode as far as adjustments? Is this a special download or is it V204 download?

Version 200 with 0 boost and 0 turbo is the same as 203 with 0 boost and 0 turbo, which is the same as the spec mode in 208. There is no reason for any version to be used anywhere other than 208.

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These two lines sum everything up in a simple way. If you fail to see the logic behind these rules you are never going to find it unless you get your way.

I can’t speak for Rob as he’s the leader of the USVTA but what I can say that’s he’s done a bunch of testing to get this all worked out and make everything fair and level for all.

If Tekin wants to make an ESC that’s non computer adjustable and fits within the rules set forth then there would be no reason it wouldn’t be allowed to be use. The fact is the way the rules are structured the Tekin along with LRP and AE/BD and SP and NOVAK they all have ESC's that are not legal. Some do have ESC's that are legal as they fall within the rules. Its really that simple…..make an esc that fits these rules. But please don’t come in here saying you are taking away choices…..because like its been stated you still have your choice to run the class or not.

The made in the USA statement…please really do you even need to go there.
We are not trying to get our way. Just trying to understand why what we have offered does not work for you so we can decide if we want to make something different.

And we are interested in that testing if it shows any unfairness.

Fair enough and what we are considering now that we understand the base issue, Cheating.

Hmm given the state of our country and this being a United States Vintage Series I thought there might be some different feelings among the members, and still think there probably is. I am proud that we make our products in America and pay our valuable employees enough that they can have a reasonable standard of living.

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The whole American based products doesn’t hold any water either. That Hyundai motor was probably produced or built in the USA and that Camaro was probably produced or built in Mexico or Canada so you tell me what’s more American? Does the name make it American? If something is packaged or partly assembled in America does that make it an American made product? Times have changed and using this whole American made ideology about the reason that your ESC is not allowed is just foolish fodder to get a rise out of people who don’t realize that not much is really 100% made in America any more.
So maybe a bad example. True many products are not made in America under American brands, but ours are right down to the plastic molds, stickers, packaging and silicone wire. To each his own on economic philosophy. We choose to feed our neighbors which gives them the means to spend money where you work and we are proud of that whether you respect it or not.

I typically avoid the political stuff and should not have opened that box. Sorry for the rant. Looks like we done here and the ball is in our court to decide if we want to make a product that meets the rules. Enjoy your series and maybe we can join the fun later.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:35 PM   #8914
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Originally Posted by A-Ko View Post
Automotive is totally different than 1 ESC product. Sure you could breakdown the the components and find something imported, like the tin in the solder. Is the air we breathe really American? So now we have to say Tekin is an Earth made product, so not confuse with something not Earth made or upset other countries who wish to lay claim? Lets just erase borders and start over so not to offend. . .
Back to the reality of the discussion.

Tekin is American made. They are making efforts to allow their product to participate in a "Spec" series to help attract those who might have the RS and care not to step backwards buying something else. I know USVTA is my interest as a spec series. With the changes, more money to invest, the state of the economy, dwindling onroad racers, not sure if it is a right fit for me? Making rc investments, Tekin made sense for me due to it never going obselete. I expect to still have my Tekin running after 5 years, what other companies can claim that with their ESC?

Tekin is in business to sell ESCs. Jim has an interest in creating something for everyone. What is wrong with having one ESC that can run in anything or everything with the right software? They should be given a chance, at least tell them what they can do to allow their controllers.
Then again it is one class that people can decide to support or not support.
They have already been told what they have to do. Make another esc that is not adjustable, period. I have a Tekin and love it to death, but our track rules allow it to run, previously with 183 with no timing and now with 208 spec. That was our tracks decision because most of our guys run the Tekin. I'm glad that Tekin atleast made the attempt to work with what they have, but unfortunately it is not good enough to be within the rules.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:35 PM   #8915
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Tekin is in business to sell ESCs. Jim has an interest in creating something for everyone. What is wrong with having one ESC that can run in anything or everything with the right software? They should be given a chance, at least tell them what they can do to allow their controllers.
It is very simple....look at the rules. Make an esc that conforms to these rules....end of discussion. There isnít really much more to sayÖ.again if you are failing to see the logic behind this thatís because you only want to see it benefit you plain and simple. Itís your choice to buy whatever you want but if you want to race in this class or any class you have to follow the rules. Because you are a big time TCS racer here I will put it to you like this.....If I show up at a Tamiya race with a X-ray/Losi/Associate/Schumacher/Corrally car and say hey let me race itís a sedan and the bodies and tires fit whatís the problem give me a chance because its all the same.....will they let me race????? If they donít let me race will Iím come on the internet and complain that they are not bending the rules to allow me to race???? I still dont see how you or anyone can fail to see the reason for the rules or what you are asking isnt within the rules and thus not allowed.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:43 PM   #8916
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Hmm given the state of our country and this being a United States Vintage Series I thought there might be some different feelings among the members, and still think there probably is. I am proud that we make our products in America and pay our valuable employees enough that they can have a reasonable standard of living.
Make an ESC thats 60 bucks that can not be hooked up to a PC and has no boost or extra advanced timing in it.....Citrix did it. Im sure if you guys did you wouldnt be able to keep them instock much like the Citrix ones....and its made in the USA even better.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:54 PM   #8917
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I guess I'm on the fence. I am in 100% agreement with the new 2010 USVTA rules. I like spec racing because the cars are equal and the cost is low. As good as the Tekin is, and I happen to have one, it changed the class to something it was not intended to be. If you weren't running a 21.5 with timing, you weren't competitive. The cars became faster than what was intended as well. VTA was becoming rubber touring car with vintage bodies. The rules had to be changed if the class was going to maintain the characteristics that made it so popular in the first place.

However, I applaud Tekin for making it easy to use their RS within the new rules. At the grass roots club racing level, USVTA is alive and well. I can see many clubs, like my own, allowing the Tekin RS in the spec mode. So, while it may not be acceptable for an official USVTA race, it is a welcome upgrade for the club racer like myself.

So, Tekin and USVTA, pat yourselves on the back. You're both doing great things for the sport/hobby.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:04 PM   #8918
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Without me search all the pages one by one, can someone point me in the right direction as to the 2010 rules?
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:07 PM   #8919
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Without me search all the pages one by one, can someone point me in the right direction as to the 2010 rules?
http://usvintagetransam.com/rules/2010rules.pdf
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:14 PM   #8920
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See in md we don't have that problem in vta. We all run open esc 21.5t the lrp sxx castle novak and tekins are all in the same laptime area and small clear lexan pancar style wings or if you have a Pantera body the wing that comes with that is good enough. Full boost and timing on vta tires and bodies acualy isn't that bad.lol
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:24 PM   #8921
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I say stop with this no timing and boost bull. Thats what is really chasing people away one person says it two fast for me or im slow because I couldn't afford a good speed control and insted of acualy thinking maybe I should drop down a class or save up like everyone else and get a good esc. Insted they fuss and get the rules changed. So now the whole field is sitting there with a 200 bux esc they can't use and now they have to get a no timing and boost setup for another 80 bux. Or just quit It works both ways.

I say just let the hobby progress with out beating it do death. Top esc's have always been $200 for the past 10 yrs. If your not good enough to run in a class there usualy a slower class that you can learn with.

Back in the day if you sucked at mod then you would run 19t or 27t.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:25 PM   #8922
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How can you say its not that bad when you have to add wings to the back of the car.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:31 PM   #8923
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How can you say its not that bad when you have to add wings to the back of the car.

Ive run them with and with out the wings and theres almost no diffrence that I can tell. It all about suspension. I took a tc4 rtr and put my vta stuff in it and set the chassis up well and beat all the xray t3's and 009's on the field and won the A main. Its all about setup. every one is so worried about the latest xray or what ever there forgetting that its not the car its driver driving goes farther than your wallet. I run the Pantera body with the tiny wing thats supplyed with the body that im sure does nothing but add drag and im dialed not loose not pushing just like touring.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:43 PM   #8924
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See in md we don't have that problem in vta. We all run open esc 21.5t the lrp sxx castle novak and tekins are all in the same laptime area and small clear lexan pancar style wings or if you have a Pantera body the wing that comes with that is good enough. Full boost and timing on vta tires and bodies acualy isn't that bad.lol
VTA = Slower, driver skill based racing, 64-73 Era bodies. Cars are of similar speed capability. Locked ESC, 25.5 motor for 9/2010 (next month) are what's going to be accepted at the regional and national level.

Open 21.5 = Sportsman Touring Car for 2010 per ROAR.

From your perspective, might as well put on the TC body and tires and you're still good to go. I'm not knocking what you're doing, just trying to put in in perspective with what's going on elsewhere. As long as your group agrees to race with those rules and and it works, more power to you. But, don't complain when we speak of the national level rules. They are there so that if I come to your track, I can be competitive.

At our track, some of us were getting our 17.5s tuned so well, we could keep up with the 13.5s on last years ESC.
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:59 PM   #8925
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VTA = Slower, driver skill based racing, 64-73 Era bodies. Cars are of similar speed capability. Locked ESC, 25.5 motor for 9/2010 (next month) are what's going to be accepted at the regional and national level.

Open 21.5 = Sportsman Touring Car for 2010 per ROAR.

From your perspective, might as well put on the TC body and tires and you're still good to go. I'm not knocking what you're doing, just trying to put in in perspective with what's going on elsewhere. As long as your group agrees to race with those rules and and it works, more power to you. But, don't complain when we speak of the national level rules. They are there so that if I come to your track, I can be competitive.

At our track, some of us were getting our 17.5s tuned so well, we could keep up with the 13.5s on last years ESC.
I fully understand that and respect that as well but I don't understand knocking a tekin speedo out of the picture just because it is able to have boost and timing when the 208 has a straight up no timing no boost profile that tech can look at the blinking light before its on the track to race. i don't get that. On that profile you only can change the stuff that avalible on just about every esc. Like braking force.ect.

We had last week a new racer just visiting from ohio with a novak ESC just coming from where he was racing no timing no boost VTA. By the 3rd heat he was with us fast guys after we helped him set up his esc. So if you come to our track we will get you fast.lol But I will be out of vta hear soon and moving on to touring in the winter I making a new class hopfuly.

If I was in control of the rules in rc. Stock class would be 21t. 19T equ would be 17.5t. So on and so on. I think were all overlooking stuff insted of complicating everything with no timing and such. Make it a slower motor like some crawler motors.

But every one has there own outlook on the subject and thats what is causing all the arguing.
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