It ain't easy
12-07-2007, 03:18 AM
#1
It ain't easy
I love this hobby. I got into it because it was the closest to full size racing I was going to get. I am an average racer, B main material. I work graveyard with too much time on my hands tonight. I have been reading on different threads about the state of TC racing. That it is going down, what is to blame and what can be done to get new blood into the hobby. The battles over Lipo vs NiMh and Brushed vs Brushless. The truth behind all of these issues is that this hobby ain't easy. It has a steep learning curve. Very steep. Building the kit is probably the easiest thing we do. Getting it "on rails" after it is built isn't easy. Tuning motors isn't easy. Maintaining batteries while not hard is tedious. The more you learn the more you realize how much more there is to learn. And then there is the time. This is not a pull it out, run it, and pack it up until next weekend thing. Not if you bought a T2, a RDX, Mi3, etc. There is car, motor, and battery maintenance. And the dreaded track time.
Running practice laps. 
These are the best and worst things about our hobby. Also, and I don't care how you look at it, it is not cheap. I think the arguments are so heated regarding Lipos and brushless motors because people believe these will help make things easier and less expensive overall. In the mean time pray for the non-racing father who wants to get his boys(or girls) started in this exciting hobby because he just doesn't know.
We all know the first question a perspective newbie always asks has "fast" in it somewhere. How much or how to get it to go around corners is never in the list of FAQ. Off road RTRs are one of the fastest growing segments of the hobby because it is relatively easy. Pretty much everything in one box. Start it up, run it, flip it over. Lots of giggles. When was the last time you giggled when you flipped(or had marshalled) your sedan in the middle of a 5 min Final. It's racing, but it wasn't funny, not at the time. It's fun, but serious fun. Now explain to that newbie how to get from where he is to where you are in 5 minutes or less.
R/C on road racing whether, nitro or electric, requires "special" people, short yellow bus special. And the faster the class the shorter the bus. There is only a small percentage of the population that qualifies. We put wives, family. important dates, financial solvency on the back burner to race these very expensive toy cars around. And get way too serious at times doing it. Just take a look at the Lipo vs NmHi thread. Some of these guys would come to blows if they were in the same room. Over what!! A battery type. The hobby will go in the direction that the consumer, us, drive it to. No need to argue. You buy what you like, I'll buy what I like, it will all work out. We have to always remember this is a hobby, done for fun. Only the top 1% make money at it and they don't seem concerned about the stuff we fuss about. They are going to race whatever their sponsers give them without batting an eye. Besides when lipos and brushless motors are made legal, I think we are going to miss the "good ole days". With no maintenance batteries and no maintenance motors what are we going to blame our continued unimpressive lap times on? Oh, I forgot, we still have the car. Damn Xray, Corally, Tamiya, etc. from keeping us from reaching our full potential.
New people are always coming into the hobby. It just seems fewer in TC because of all the options now available in the R/C world. 1/5,1/8, 1/10,1/12, 1/18, Oval, Drifting, plus all that is in Off Road. And I didn't mention air and water. The short bus makes a stop at all these and people will continue to get off at the TC stop.
Running practice laps. These are the best and worst things about our hobby. Also, and I don't care how you look at it, it is not cheap. I think the arguments are so heated regarding Lipos and brushless motors because people believe these will help make things easier and less expensive overall. In the mean time pray for the non-racing father who wants to get his boys(or girls) started in this exciting hobby because he just doesn't know. We all know the first question a perspective newbie always asks has "fast" in it somewhere. How much or how to get it to go around corners is never in the list of FAQ. Off road RTRs are one of the fastest growing segments of the hobby because it is relatively easy. Pretty much everything in one box. Start it up, run it, flip it over. Lots of giggles. When was the last time you giggled when you flipped(or had marshalled) your sedan in the middle of a 5 min Final. It's racing, but it wasn't funny, not at the time. It's fun, but serious fun. Now explain to that newbie how to get from where he is to where you are in 5 minutes or less.
R/C on road racing whether, nitro or electric, requires "special" people, short yellow bus special. And the faster the class the shorter the bus. There is only a small percentage of the population that qualifies. We put wives, family. important dates, financial solvency on the back burner to race these very expensive toy cars around. And get way too serious at times doing it. Just take a look at the Lipo vs NmHi thread. Some of these guys would come to blows if they were in the same room. Over what!! A battery type. The hobby will go in the direction that the consumer, us, drive it to. No need to argue. You buy what you like, I'll buy what I like, it will all work out. We have to always remember this is a hobby, done for fun. Only the top 1% make money at it and they don't seem concerned about the stuff we fuss about. They are going to race whatever their sponsers give them without batting an eye. Besides when lipos and brushless motors are made legal, I think we are going to miss the "good ole days". With no maintenance batteries and no maintenance motors what are we going to blame our continued unimpressive lap times on? Oh, I forgot, we still have the car. Damn Xray, Corally, Tamiya, etc. from keeping us from reaching our full potential.
New people are always coming into the hobby. It just seems fewer in TC because of all the options now available in the R/C world. 1/5,1/8, 1/10,1/12, 1/18, Oval, Drifting, plus all that is in Off Road. And I didn't mention air and water. The short bus makes a stop at all these and people will continue to get off at the TC stop.
Last edited by Impulse_racer; 12-08-2007 at 02:37 AM.
JK. Get some sleep.
12-07-2007, 07:03 AM
#3
it ain't easy
Nothing competitive is easy (except rock paper scissors.) If it was, it wouldn't be competitive, because everyone could be the champ. In the nimh vs lipo and brushed vs BL debates, no one is coming to blows. There are different agendas being put forth that are incompatible.
You mentioned caring for motors and batteries as 1 part of the steep learning curve in r/c. The whole point of LIPO and BL is to eliminate these 2 activities from the learning curve, and greatly reduce the expense list. I don't think anyone will miss the "good old days" once the change to BL and LIPO is complete.
Hardcore R/C racers are a fanatic, addict type bunch that spend a lot of time on racing toy cars, but for this personality type, it would either be r/c or some other pursuit. In the long run, r/c is cheaper than most other pursuits, and gives plenty of satisfaction.
By the way, much less than 1% of r/c racers do it for a living. The vast majority of sponsored racers have a real job.
Is there anything else to do on the graveyard shift except bench racing?
You mentioned caring for motors and batteries as 1 part of the steep learning curve in r/c. The whole point of LIPO and BL is to eliminate these 2 activities from the learning curve, and greatly reduce the expense list. I don't think anyone will miss the "good old days" once the change to BL and LIPO is complete.
Hardcore R/C racers are a fanatic, addict type bunch that spend a lot of time on racing toy cars, but for this personality type, it would either be r/c or some other pursuit. In the long run, r/c is cheaper than most other pursuits, and gives plenty of satisfaction.
By the way, much less than 1% of r/c racers do it for a living. The vast majority of sponsored racers have a real job.
Is there anything else to do on the graveyard shift except bench racing?
12-07-2007, 07:52 AM
#4
I think one of the issues with electric onroad racing is the desire by so many people to race at the same level and with the same equipment as the world's top drivers do.
To use an analogy of "real" car racing, that is like Joe Racer at the local 1/2 mile dirt track wanting to use the same equipment and spend almost as much money as Jimmie Johnson or Tony Stewart. It just doesn't make sense.
But, in the RC world, how many people have the $500 car and the $150 batteries, and the $400 charger, .....?
I think some people are starting to realize this and are moving towards Tamiya Mini Coopers, or "Vintage Trans Am" racing, or "Legends" -- lower cost, fun racing. A very good racer I know just posted on a local track thread that he's thinking of skipping a big series race at another track and instead stay at the local track to race his Trans Am car because it is so much more fun than touring cars.
This isn't a "we need more classes" soapbox speech. I just think local club racers would do better with DIFFERENT CLASSES than the world's top racers. Tony Stewart didn't just decide to race NASCAR and walk down to the local garage and by a $500,000 stock car. He started in completely different vehicles and worked his way up to eventually indy cars and NASCAR.
So, my point is that not all of us need to compete at the "world's best" level. If we instead find a fun competitive racing class, racing will be more fun. It still won't be easy, but that's OK.
And finally, I have to disagree with your phrase "dreaded track time". Track time is what we are doing all this for isn't it?
Anyway, good discussion.
To use an analogy of "real" car racing, that is like Joe Racer at the local 1/2 mile dirt track wanting to use the same equipment and spend almost as much money as Jimmie Johnson or Tony Stewart. It just doesn't make sense.
But, in the RC world, how many people have the $500 car and the $150 batteries, and the $400 charger, .....?
I think some people are starting to realize this and are moving towards Tamiya Mini Coopers, or "Vintage Trans Am" racing, or "Legends" -- lower cost, fun racing. A very good racer I know just posted on a local track thread that he's thinking of skipping a big series race at another track and instead stay at the local track to race his Trans Am car because it is so much more fun than touring cars.
This isn't a "we need more classes" soapbox speech. I just think local club racers would do better with DIFFERENT CLASSES than the world's top racers. Tony Stewart didn't just decide to race NASCAR and walk down to the local garage and by a $500,000 stock car. He started in completely different vehicles and worked his way up to eventually indy cars and NASCAR.
So, my point is that not all of us need to compete at the "world's best" level. If we instead find a fun competitive racing class, racing will be more fun. It still won't be easy, but that's OK.
And finally, I have to disagree with your phrase "dreaded track time". Track time is what we are doing all this for isn't it?
Anyway, good discussion.
12-07-2007, 07:59 AM
#5
12-07-2007, 08:13 AM
#6
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in england everyone does! TC3=almost $500 (£220 i think), EP4200's are $120 (£60) a set and chargers are easily $300 (£150). its all too expensive. honestly, i envy you :P
12-07-2007, 08:14 AM
#7
12-07-2007, 08:15 AM
#8
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double post
Last edited by joe of loath; 12-08-2007 at 07:23 AM.
12-07-2007, 08:28 AM
#9
"'Racing' and 'Expensive' go together. Always have, always will." - Kyle Petty on "Tradin' Paint"
Granted I agree that some aspects of RC racing are getting too expensive. By too expensive I mean there are people who look at the cost of something (car, batteries, whatever) and say "I'm not paying that." When the cost of getting into RC racing turns people away, that's when it's too expensive. Electric touring car is there, and 1/12 is fast approaching. I mean I never thought I would see the day a 1/12 scale car would approach $300!
I always thought it was a good idea for a less expensive way of getting into the hobby. There are lots of good ideas out there, but none seem to catch on.
Granted I agree that some aspects of RC racing are getting too expensive. By too expensive I mean there are people who look at the cost of something (car, batteries, whatever) and say "I'm not paying that." When the cost of getting into RC racing turns people away, that's when it's too expensive. Electric touring car is there, and 1/12 is fast approaching. I mean I never thought I would see the day a 1/12 scale car would approach $300!
I always thought it was a good idea for a less expensive way of getting into the hobby. There are lots of good ideas out there, but none seem to catch on.
12-07-2007, 08:29 AM
#10
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the prices rise because theres always someone willing to pay. thats capitalism. make as much money as you can.
12-07-2007, 08:39 AM
#11
I love this hobby. I got into it because it was the closest to full size racing I was going to get. I am an average racer, B main material. I work graveyard with too much time on my hands tonight. I have been reading on different threads about the state of TC racing. That it is going down, what is to blame and what can be done to get new blood into the hobby. The battles over Lipo vs NiMh and Brushed vs Brushless. The truth behind all of these issues is that this hobby ain't easy. It has a steep learning curve. Very steep. Building the kit is probably the easiest thing we do. Getting it "on rails" after it is built isn't easy. Tuning motors isn't easy. Maintaining batteries while not hard is tedious. The more you learn the more you realize how much more there is to learn. And then there is the time. This is not a pull it out, run it, and pack it up until next weekend thing. Not if you bought a T2, a RDX, Mi3, etc. There is car, motor, and battery maintenance. And the dreaded track time. Running practice laps. These are the best and worst things about our hobby. Also, and I don't care how you look at it, it is not cheap. I think the arguments are so heated regarding Lipos and brushless motors because people believe these will help make things easier and less expensive overall. In the mean time pray for the non-racing father who wants to get his boys(or girls) started in this exciting hobby because he just doesn't know. We all know the first question a perspective newbie always asks has "fast" in it somewhere. How much or how to get it to go around corners is never in the list of FAQ. Off road RTRs are one of the fastest growing segments of the hobby because it is relatively easy. Pretty much everything in one box. Start it up, run it, flip it over. Lots of giggles. When was the last time you giggled when you flipped(or had marshalled) your sedan in the middle of a 5 min Final. It's racing, but it wasn't funny, not at the time. It's fun, but serious fun. Now explain to that newbie how to get from where he is to where you are in 5 minutes or less. R/C on road racing whether, nitro or electric, requires "special" people, short yellow bus special. And the faster the class the shorter the bus. There is only a small percentage of the population that qualifies. We put wives, family. important dates, financial solvency on the back burner to race these very expensive toy cars around. And get way too serious at times doing it. Just take a look at the Lipo vs NmHi thread. Some of these guys would come to blows if they were in the same room. Over what!! A battery type. The hobby will go in the direction that the consumer, us, drive it to. No need to argue. You buy what you like, I'll buy what I like, it will all work out. We have to always remember this is a hobby, done for fun. Only the top 1% make money at it and they don't seem concerned about the stuff we fuss about. They are going to race whatever their sponsers give them without batting an eye. Besides when lipos and brushless motors are made legal, I think we are going to miss the "good ole days". With no maintenance batteries and no maintenance motors what are we going to blame our continued unimpressive lap times on? Oh, I forgot, we still have the car. Damn Xray, Corally, Tamiya, etc. from keeping us from reaching our full potential.
New people are always coming into the hobby. It just seems fewer in TC because of all the options now available in the R/C world. 1/5,1/8, 1/10,1/12, 1/18, Oval, Drifting, plus all that is in Off Road. And I didn't mention air and water. The short bus makes a stop at all these and people will continue to get off at the TC stop.
New people are always coming into the hobby. It just seems fewer in TC because of all the options now available in the R/C world. 1/5,1/8, 1/10,1/12, 1/18, Oval, Drifting, plus all that is in Off Road. And I didn't mention air and water. The short bus makes a stop at all these and people will continue to get off at the TC stop.
The biggest problem is with local racers taking racing way too seriously. I bring a few friends to the track to check out the local racing and they can't beleive how bent out of shape some people get over this hobby. Don't get me wrong I do work on my car but I have fun doing it. I can't beleive you put dreaded track time, working on the car repair might be a pain once in a while but track time is the best part of racing..lol
12-07-2007, 08:46 AM
#12
Impulse_racer, since you have so much time on your hands and have access to a computer and work the graveyard shift as i do. get the VRC simulated rc game (www.virtualrc.com), it's like track time in the seat of your choice and in spring of 2008 they will have electric onroad and offroad.you can even use your own radio. i wish i had access to a computer at my job.
12-07-2007, 08:57 AM
#13
I think Bary Baker said it best, "we're racing toy cars for bowling trophies".
I still think no matter what technology comes about you will still have to put a little work into it. Its like buying a train set, and then complaining that you actually have to set up the track before you can play.
Way too many bent and twisted primadonnas with monster egos in racing, last time I checked Roger Penske still wasn't phoning after my big club win.
I still think no matter what technology comes about you will still have to put a little work into it. Its like buying a train set, and then complaining that you actually have to set up the track before you can play.
Way too many bent and twisted primadonnas with monster egos in racing, last time I checked Roger Penske still wasn't phoning after my big club win.
12-07-2007, 09:04 AM
#14
anything competitive is expensive. even basketball can be... with the prices these Nike/Reebok/Addidas shoes fetch for a pair of NBA-star series shoes that everyone wants to buy. What more the jerseys, shorts, compression shorts, etc etc.
I race 1:1 as another hobby as well (solo/autox). getting into the racing isn't "expensive". all you really need is a streetable car with no leaks and working brakes and seatbelts. throw in a helmet and your ready to line up at the starting line. but if you want to hang with the big boys, that's when your wallet starts to ache. upgrading/changing the engine, i/h/e, suspension upgrades, stickier tires. and you're lucky if you don't crash pushing the envelope... that's additional $$$ for you.
in 1:10TC everyone wants to run what Moore, Hara, Masami, and all the other sponsored drivers ran and won with. i noticed that one of the most common questions at the track is "what's he running?" or "what kit is he running?" so instead of learning to drive, everybody goes out when they get their paycheck/allowance to buy the hottest RC thing.
I race 1:1 as another hobby as well (solo/autox). getting into the racing isn't "expensive". all you really need is a streetable car with no leaks and working brakes and seatbelts. throw in a helmet and your ready to line up at the starting line. but if you want to hang with the big boys, that's when your wallet starts to ache. upgrading/changing the engine, i/h/e, suspension upgrades, stickier tires. and you're lucky if you don't crash pushing the envelope... that's additional $$$ for you.
in 1:10TC everyone wants to run what Moore, Hara, Masami, and all the other sponsored drivers ran and won with. i noticed that one of the most common questions at the track is "what's he running?" or "what kit is he running?" so instead of learning to drive, everybody goes out when they get their paycheck/allowance to buy the hottest RC thing.
12-07-2007, 09:24 AM
#15
I know I was one of those racer's that started taking it to serious and it got to where it just wasnt fun any more so I quit for about a year and Now I'm back and it's just for fun. I've got the brushless motors and lipo pack's and I'm spending more time racing on the track and less time bench racing. It seems to be more fun for ME that way.