Are we at the barrier?
11-29-2007, 11:06 PM
#61
brushed is at the best it can be at the current rules, if they would allow us to do whatever with brushed than the game would be totally different....
we have some stuff that will never see a big race or club race, that has all the power you would ever need and dumping isnt even close to an issue, but the rules say we cant run em....same can size btw
sad that most people will never see what a brushed motor is seriously capable of
we have some stuff that will never see a big race or club race, that has all the power you would ever need and dumping isnt even close to an issue, but the rules say we cant run em....same can size btw
sad that most people will never see what a brushed motor is seriously capable of
11-30-2007, 04:10 AM
#62
Flameoutgattertt,
cmon man, now you started you cant stop!
Spill the beans man...........
cmon man, now you started you cant stop!
Spill the beans man...........
11-30-2007, 05:41 AM
#63
Tech Adept
party_wagon I agree with you.
Probably electric cars are at the barrier, not technical, but of existence.
Let's try to learn from the other scales there have been more successful. Here the 1:8 OffRoad is by far the most popular scale, but in 1:10 onroad are too, where electrics put 17 pilots in a nacional event, 1:10-200 (IC) put 60 pilots.
We must learn they have not a lot of classes, the cars are stupid fast, with stupid power, they cost a lot of money, but they have a lot of people doing the hobby and a lot of people that want to start with it. So what can we learn from them? We can start by study their rules, they are much more simple that ours for electrics, rules do not lead to one manufacturer, rules do not try to make equal the power of each engine, they just limit the size of the engine (capacity) and electrics should do the same, limit the can size and the amount of volts (not the type of batteries) do not worry if somebody want to take a lead/acid batterie in side the car. Do not make a rule to forbide it. Let that person find out that is not the way to go.
Some IC engines have allmost 50% more of the output power of some others, they make more revs, it is not a problem for the IC pilots. Give the oportunity of people to choose.
LET PEOPLE FEEL FREE, a feeling that does not exist in electric racing.
Probably electric cars are at the barrier, not technical, but of existence.
Let's try to learn from the other scales there have been more successful. Here the 1:8 OffRoad is by far the most popular scale, but in 1:10 onroad are too, where electrics put 17 pilots in a nacional event, 1:10-200 (IC) put 60 pilots.
We must learn they have not a lot of classes, the cars are stupid fast, with stupid power, they cost a lot of money, but they have a lot of people doing the hobby and a lot of people that want to start with it. So what can we learn from them? We can start by study their rules, they are much more simple that ours for electrics, rules do not lead to one manufacturer, rules do not try to make equal the power of each engine, they just limit the size of the engine (capacity) and electrics should do the same, limit the can size and the amount of volts (not the type of batteries) do not worry if somebody want to take a lead/acid batterie in side the car. Do not make a rule to forbide it. Let that person find out that is not the way to go.
Some IC engines have allmost 50% more of the output power of some others, they make more revs, it is not a problem for the IC pilots. Give the oportunity of people to choose.
LET PEOPLE FEEL FREE, a feeling that does not exist in electric racing.
11-30-2007, 05:58 AM
#64
flameoutgarrett - are you talking rare earth stuff ? If so yep it would make TC mind bendingly quick (see 1/10th drag racing)
I don't think overall we have hit a barrier. At this time the design of the TC suits the power available. This is on the change now that brushless is going to be more predominant come next year. Yes, cars do seem the same, but when you get to an engineering level there are differences in them.
Take a look at how design, power and cells have improved in the last 10 years. When I left the sport over 14 years ago I was running a ZXR with a 13 Double Corally, Sanyo 1700 SCRc's and a Tekin 700 (or a 410K depending on whether I was running my Tamiya F1). This at the time was ballistic but now it wouldnt even touch cars running 19t's im sure. Right now the design has improved 10 fold.
I can't wait to see what RC is doing in 5 years time !
I don't think overall we have hit a barrier. At this time the design of the TC suits the power available. This is on the change now that brushless is going to be more predominant come next year. Yes, cars do seem the same, but when you get to an engineering level there are differences in them.
Take a look at how design, power and cells have improved in the last 10 years. When I left the sport over 14 years ago I was running a ZXR with a 13 Double Corally, Sanyo 1700 SCRc's and a Tekin 700 (or a 410K depending on whether I was running my Tamiya F1). This at the time was ballistic but now it wouldnt even touch cars running 19t's im sure. Right now the design has improved 10 fold.
I can't wait to see what RC is doing in 5 years time !
11-30-2007, 07:19 AM
#65
Tech Adept
In technical terms I believe electric cars are just babies and will start to grow now. Once again manufacturers of electric cars will have to learn with the IC guys. If we take a close look at on road 1:10 and 1:8 4x4 they have built the fixed weight components "around" the variable weight parts (fuel tank) leaving this in the centre of gravity of the car. The same on aerobatic pattern model airplanes where the fuel tank is now in the middle of the wings at the center of gravity (and not at the nose) in a way the if loaded with fuel or almost empty the model will mantain balance all time.
In electric the variable part will always be the "fuel tank", the batteries with their diferent capacity or diferent manufacturer.
I believe the future will be something between the losi type R and the Team Magic latest car with 3 belts like IC cars.
Until now the makers were optimizing transmission with less weight because batteries were heavier everyday. Now we have light batteries so they can/must think the cars in a diferent form, and yes making them more resistent like IC cars.
In electric the variable part will always be the "fuel tank", the batteries with their diferent capacity or diferent manufacturer.
I believe the future will be something between the losi type R and the Team Magic latest car with 3 belts like IC cars.
Until now the makers were optimizing transmission with less weight because batteries were heavier everyday. Now we have light batteries so they can/must think the cars in a diferent form, and yes making them more resistent like IC cars.
11-30-2007, 07:31 AM
#67
Am I the only one thinking you're just plain crazy if you want more speed than what a 2.5 or 3.5 b/l motor can supply????
With the quality of stuff we have out these days I don't honestly think we need more speed. Chassis have been optimised so much that laptimes are tiny and it is unlikely we will see any one item to make massive changes in laptimes.
Some people like the simplicity in racing, some people like the technical complexity of it all. We have both, but driver skill and equipement are so varied between us all to the point where sometimes the racing isnt as close as it used to be.
Go back to the 3300 cell era with stock motors and the racing was close...
Now stock is all just about having the best cells and motors to be at the sharp end. The more the technology advances the more difference there is (so it seems) in performance....
We have everything we need to go racing, but we have diluted the racing with the vast amount of stuff and its performance difference though, not forgetting the classes of racing there is.
With the quality of stuff we have out these days I don't honestly think we need more speed. Chassis have been optimised so much that laptimes are tiny and it is unlikely we will see any one item to make massive changes in laptimes.
Some people like the simplicity in racing, some people like the technical complexity of it all. We have both, but driver skill and equipement are so varied between us all to the point where sometimes the racing isnt as close as it used to be.
Go back to the 3300 cell era with stock motors and the racing was close...
Now stock is all just about having the best cells and motors to be at the sharp end. The more the technology advances the more difference there is (so it seems) in performance....
We have everything we need to go racing, but we have diluted the racing with the vast amount of stuff and its performance difference though, not forgetting the classes of racing there is.
11-30-2007, 07:44 AM
#69
Am I the only one thinking you're just plain crazy if you want more speed than what a 2.5 or 3.5 b/l motor can supply????
With the quality of stuff we have out these days I don't honestly think we need more speed. Chassis have been optimised so much that laptimes are tiny and it is unlikely we will see any one item to make massive changes in laptimes.
Some people like the simplicity in racing, some people like the technical complexity of it all. We have both, but driver skill and equipement are so varied between us all to the point where sometimes the racing isnt as close as it used to be.
Go back to the 3300 cell era with stock motors and the racing was close...
Now stock is all just about having the best cells and motors to be at the sharp end. The more the technology advances the more difference there is (so it seems) in performance....
We have everything we need to go racing, but we have diluted the racing with the vast amount of stuff and its performance difference though, not forgetting the classes of racing there is.
With the quality of stuff we have out these days I don't honestly think we need more speed. Chassis have been optimised so much that laptimes are tiny and it is unlikely we will see any one item to make massive changes in laptimes.
Some people like the simplicity in racing, some people like the technical complexity of it all. We have both, but driver skill and equipement are so varied between us all to the point where sometimes the racing isnt as close as it used to be.
Go back to the 3300 cell era with stock motors and the racing was close...
Now stock is all just about having the best cells and motors to be at the sharp end. The more the technology advances the more difference there is (so it seems) in performance....
We have everything we need to go racing, but we have diluted the racing with the vast amount of stuff and its performance difference though, not forgetting the classes of racing there is.
3300's were reliable but those were the days were there was a big gap between factory cells and average cells so the racing actually had a bigger gap from what I remembered.
11-30-2007, 07:59 AM
#70
Jumping into something else now,
I would love to see gas shocks and computized diff's in RC.
I would love to see gas shocks and computized diff's in RC.
11-30-2007, 08:01 AM
#71
I hope TC cars are at a barrier, Someone should gather all the Stratus,Mazda 6 bodies and burn them in a big bon fire and them more people might get back in to TC. or RC in general.
HPI Trans Am bodies are about the best thing going besides Tamiya and Yokomo drift car bodies.
HPI Trans Am bodies are about the best thing going besides Tamiya and Yokomo drift car bodies.
11-30-2007, 08:23 AM
#72
Tech Master
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I hope TC cars are at a barrier, Someone should gather all the Stratus,Mazda 6 bodies and burn them in a big bon fire and them more people might get back in to TC. or RC in general.
HPI Trans Am bodies are about the best thing going besides Tamiya and Yokomo drift car bodies.
HPI Trans Am bodies are about the best thing going besides Tamiya and Yokomo drift car bodies.
Rod
11-30-2007, 08:43 AM
#73
Once again I will tell you guys how to get the most out of the changes to come.
1. Do some research & see why people like the most popular class in r/c. Low maintanance, durable, long run times, too much power, fun dependable rtrs that will survive a race day.
2. There should be 20 minute mains instead of the triple a-mains, there should not be a battery limit & any 540 sized motor w/out rare earth metals should be allowed, there just isn't a need to run something like a neu 1509 .9d.
3. When picking out a chasis don't pick it because it looks cool. Instead pick it because you believe it is the most durable tc on the market. You will be able to get much more track time w/ li//bl setups & if you break something every time you crash then you are going to spend much less time on the track then you could in the long run. There are lots of cars that when properly setp will be more then fast enough for people to win with.
1. Do some research & see why people like the most popular class in r/c. Low maintanance, durable, long run times, too much power, fun dependable rtrs that will survive a race day.
2. There should be 20 minute mains instead of the triple a-mains, there should not be a battery limit & any 540 sized motor w/out rare earth metals should be allowed, there just isn't a need to run something like a neu 1509 .9d.
3. When picking out a chasis don't pick it because it looks cool. Instead pick it because you believe it is the most durable tc on the market. You will be able to get much more track time w/ li//bl setups & if you break something every time you crash then you are going to spend much less time on the track then you could in the long run. There are lots of cars that when properly setp will be more then fast enough for people to win with.
11-30-2007, 09:02 AM
#74
Yeah i have the matches but i havent got any bubble cars here. All of my RC cars look like a real car. Some even have driver figure inside.
So here are some new touring car rules for everybody.
1.Body must be a real car. No Stratus blobs,if you find a Stratus body that isnt a blob,then it must have a baby on board sticker in the rear window
2. No neon paint jobs, Sorry but the guy at the flea market cant airbrush your bodies anymore.
3. No dish wheels,Unless you body is a Salt flats racer.
4. Cars must have a driver,even lexan ones are ok.
5. you can only run the Motor,battery comb,or lower, of the guy setting to the right of you in the pits.Unless you are driveing faster than him allready.then you must refer to the guy to the left of you,unless you are faster than this guy also.In this event you must pack up and go home.As you have all ready won. This saves time as there isnt any reason to to waste all day waiting to run a five minute race just to find out you are the winner any way.
Rule number 5 is just for the serious racers,that have sponcers.
I really like the Trams-Am class that is discussed on a different thread.
Im not into Drift cars but the bodies have very good detail.
I just like things to look a little more scale, even 1/8th Nitro cars have more scale than TC. TC are really boring right now,just ask Yokomo. New parts everyday for Drift cars,but is there anything new for the TC guys?
How about Tamiya and the LEDS that come with most of the entry level kits.
LED`s are more popular than 20T motors.
Just ramblings but i sell more brushless kits for Drift guys than TC guys. Drift cars dont even need to be brushless.
So the touring car barrier now is that no matter how fast they go they are still boring.
All of my RC cars look like a real car. Some even have driver figure inside.So here are some new touring car rules for everybody.
1.Body must be a real car. No Stratus blobs,if you find a Stratus body that isnt a blob,then it must have a baby on board sticker in the rear window
2. No neon paint jobs, Sorry but the guy at the flea market cant airbrush your bodies anymore.
3. No dish wheels,Unless you body is a Salt flats racer.
4. Cars must have a driver,even lexan ones are ok.
5. you can only run the Motor,battery comb,or lower, of the guy setting to the right of you in the pits.Unless you are driveing faster than him allready.then you must refer to the guy to the left of you,unless you are faster than this guy also.In this event you must pack up and go home.As you have all ready won. This saves time as there isnt any reason to to waste all day waiting to run a five minute race just to find out you are the winner any way.
Rule number 5 is just for the serious racers,that have sponcers.
I really like the Trams-Am class that is discussed on a different thread.
Im not into Drift cars but the bodies have very good detail.
I just like things to look a little more scale, even 1/8th Nitro cars have more scale than TC. TC are really boring right now,just ask Yokomo. New parts everyday for Drift cars,but is there anything new for the TC guys?
How about Tamiya and the LEDS that come with most of the entry level kits.
LED`s are more popular than 20T motors.
Just ramblings but i sell more brushless kits for Drift guys than TC guys. Drift cars dont even need to be brushless.
So the touring car barrier now is that no matter how fast they go they are still boring.
11-30-2007, 09:02 AM
#75
thesedays I feel that is lacking a bit more and that ties in with less new blood coming into sedans... Plus if you get too many big fish in a small pond there is no space for the small fry...
With more brands of equipment out there it is only logical there is more range of performance out there to go with it.