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Old 09-21-2006, 02:09 PM   #14671
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull
Flood, I hear you. But notice, you said one key thing..."competitive in lower classes". I do not dispute that the Pro 4 is an excellent vehicle...heck, I just bought mine less than 3 months ago. I love this car. That being said, the whole Hot bodies/HPI thing is bunk. It was cool when Hotbodies made the hop-ups, but when THEY got the belt car, and now that every major brand has abandoned shaft(Tamiya being the exception and even they revised theirs), then I have to question what is going on over at HPI. Other vehicles have a heavy support base, heck, I still see TC3 parts available and how long has it been for that car?!?!?@!? Give us a Pro5 and parts support!

But, I have to say this. Go to HPI's website. If they valued the Pro 4 so much, why is it discontinued? And sprint, their "low end" car, still in production? That car came out as a toy, a car to buy for people just getting into the hobby, a mere stepping stone. That is still alive on the site WITH hop-ups!! Seems to me that HPI is putting the money into the wrong items. How many team drivers does XRay have? To my knowledge, HPI has three highly paid drivers....two of which have cars that are discontinued. I wonder why money isnt going into development.....?????
the reason i say in lower classes is because the world consensus is that belt is superior in mod. look at all the places where shaft is currently popular....its almost exclusively stock (or a variant there of).

Not to mention that the cyclone IS the pro5 basically. Just because its branded as HB doesnt mean its not HPI's newest car.

and seriously I doubt HPI sees much of a market for a new shaft car. I mean how many people see a cyclone or 415 win and then go out and buy a pro4 or evo?
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Old 09-21-2006, 04:58 PM   #14672
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Originally Posted by floodo1
the reason i say in lower classes is because the world consensus is that belt is superior in mod. look at all the places where shaft is currently popular....its almost exclusively stock (or a variant there of).

bxpitbull--->Yes, belts are doing their thing simply because nobody elected to do any work in combatting torquesteer. Tamiya has and the EVO V from what I read responds like a belt car with zero torquesteer.

Not to mention that the cyclone IS the pro5 basically. Just because its branded as HB doesnt mean its not HPI's newest car.

bxpitbull--->The Cyclone while sharing some parts, is not a Pro5. Call HPi and talk to them yourself. I spoke to a fella at HPI, asking if the Pro4 will have aluminum bulkheads as a hop-up along with aluminum outdrives like the Cyclone. Dude told me that two different teams worked on each car and how HotBodies does their work is seperate from HPI. They borrow off of HPI stuff, but many of the Cyclone parts are exclusive to the Cyclone.

and seriously I doubt HPI sees much of a market for a new shaft car. I mean how many people see a cyclone or 415 win and then go out and buy a pro4 or evo?


bxpitbull--->Well, it isnt what HPI generally sees, but what the average club racer dictates. You yourself said that shaft is dominating the lower classes. That being said, if they were to listen to what the consumer and the average racer wants, then there IS a demand. Tamiya saw the need. XRay took heed. Corally did the same. So while what you say may hold a bit of truth, in all honesty, I think it's laziness on the part of HPI and mis-readings. No one is saying HPi has to come out with a shaft car, but give us SOMETHING new!
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Old 09-21-2006, 06:38 PM   #14673
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Club racers rarely - dictate anything!

If they did, then there would be NO development of any sort. There are cries of complaint from the old guys, against those wanting to run Lipo, Brushless, new mods, cobalts etc. etc.

If club racers were level headed they wouldn't splash out on the latest and greatest iteration of Tamiya or X-ray cars. Most ppl couldn't drive any of the top tourers to their full potential anyway.

All the top level tourers are belt driven - this is partly consumer driven, partly marketing. The new X-ray (Belt), Kyosho (Belt), TC-5? (belt)...
There are some shafties.. the other kyosho and the tamiya...

However - both these companies already had shaft driven cars already. Lower classes like the efficiency.. but the big money is at the top.
Mod ready cars + equipment.

Stock takes time and knowledge.. mod take that and adds consumables.
Given that HPI and HB are jointly owned by the same businessman. You can consider the Cyclone as a development via HPI (more experience). That has already been through 4 iterations. Pretty much the same as the rest of the market. That's as new as you're going to get buddy..

Whether brand positioning dictates that it is officially an HB or HPI product.. does that really matter?

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Old 09-21-2006, 08:53 PM   #14674
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Originally Posted by AngryAsian
Club racers rarely - dictate anything!

If they did, then there would be NO development of any sort. There are cries of complaint from the old guys, against those wanting to run Lipo, Brushless, new mods, cobalts etc. etc.

If club racers were level headed they wouldn't splash out on the latest and greatest iteration of Tamiya or X-ray cars. Most ppl couldn't drive any of the top tourers to their full potential anyway.

All the top level tourers are belt driven - this is partly consumer driven, partly marketing. The new X-ray (Belt), Kyosho (Belt), TC-5? (belt)...
There are some shafties.. the other kyosho and the tamiya...

However - both these companies already had shaft driven cars already. Lower classes like the efficiency.. but the big money is at the top.
Mod ready cars + equipment.

Stock takes time and knowledge.. mod take that and adds consumables.
Given that HPI and HB are jointly owned by the same businessman. You can consider the Cyclone as a development via HPI (more experience). That has already been through 4 iterations. Pretty much the same as the rest of the market. That's as new as you're going to get buddy..

Whether brand positioning dictates that it is officially an HB or HPI product.. does that really matter?
Angry, I beg to differ on many accounts. Club racers do dictate what drives the market. Indirectly, but they do. They are the ones companies are catering their product to and these are the people that SMART companies listen to. If a massive amount of people started using shaft, you can bet your bottom dollar that everyone and their mother's company would come out with a shaft car. And on the note of belt/shaft, belt won the war simply because of simplicity in getting to the diffs. Torquesteer has been beat by the folks over at Tamiya. The other companies just followed suit because belt was easier to fallback on when shaft was a headache with torquesteer.

They HB and HPI are owned by the same people, yes. Does branding matter? Hmmmm. Cadillac Escalade or Chevy Escalade? Which has more prestige? Ford Navigator or Lincoln Navigator, which has more elegance? Lexus 430 or Toyota Avalon? Which is more luxurious? Infiniti Q series or Nissan Maxima? I can go on. Several of the afore mentioned do not exist, why? Because they are labelled toward the more budgetted, thats why. So yes, brand does matter. Which is why you have Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator, Cadillac Escallade/Chevy Tahoe, Lexus 430/Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima/Infiniti Q45. That being said, HPI recognized the the Ezilla wasnt moving and the Savage has more of a following.....now you have ESavage. Everybody knows the two companies are under the same umbrella, so why have the division????
It was cool to play the guessing game two years ago, but, since everything came to light, HPI people have gotten the shaft...no pun intended.

Now, maybe you people arent reading. I am not all about BRING US ANOTHER SHAFT CAR. I am simply asking HPI, not HotBodies, HPI to give us another car.
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:37 PM   #14675
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... ..."the Club racers do dictate what drives the market". I don't see this as really happening, Not that many Club racers when you compare to how many cars are in the hands of (for lack of better words) bashers. My local hobby shop sold about 15 or so Pro4's, On the local racing scene at one time their were about 4 guys racing Pro4's...and I sold 3 of them to the guys who were racing Pro4's (my used ones). I think what happens on the pro level and what goes on in the magazines is what dictates the market. I am one of the last (you can count Floodo1 also) racers in my area that still races a Pro4...2 out of over 100, HB and HPI are really the same company with HB as the racing side of the two. HB "might" produce a "shaft" car but I would not count on it...but you never know, Hara was the force behind the Pro4 and he does race for HB.
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:53 PM   #14676
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My problem with hotbodies is the complete lack of support for them in my area. Sure ican get the parts they share with the pro 4 but that's it. I've only had the Pro 4 for a few months but I've been happy with it and it's a better car than I am a driver but my next car will be an Xray simply because of the parts support in the local area. It's a real shame HPI isn't brining out a high level car anymore as HPI has good support in my area.
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:21 PM   #14677
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...You should be able to get HB parts just as easy as the HPI parts, I would have to look at the local shops on that one...Seems like maybe they are "NOT" ordering the parts. They do come from the same wearhouse...
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Old 09-21-2006, 11:15 PM   #14678
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OK, xxxkat (love that fighting kitten), floodo and Angry Asian, here is my question to you gents...When did HotBodies become THE racing arm of HPI???? HotBodies used to be the hop up arm of HPI (they did a great job making the Pro3 into the Pro3.5) and many good parts for the Savage. The thing that mystifies me is, when they merged, when was it decided that HotBodies would get to do the elite stuff and HPI the....I don't even know what to call it. The Cyclone, ya'll can't front, came from under the radar. Hara was winning with the Pro4 and then one day, poof, he was showing up to races pushing a "development car" aka the Cyclone. Now, dont get me wrong, I believe it is a good car (Andy Moore killed them with it), but it is an eyesore (no one pushes an ugly whip, no matter how it performs). Not to mention, why all the seperation hoopla? Thats like you are the big cheese on the block, let someone else come on board and then let them take the forefront with all the elite products?????That is not good business pratice and no matter what you cats say, something aint stirring the coffee over at HPI.
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Old 09-22-2006, 05:45 AM   #14679
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HMmm not buying the club racer point. Each to their own I suppose.

As for branding - sure. But haven't you just made my point for me? Whatever is popular sells.. independantly of what is actually good. FOr RC - it's the top level that drives the consumers. Worlds level racing.. (unfortunate.. but this would be my opinion anyway..)

If you like the car analogy...
Aston Martin DB9 - great car by all accounts..Demand is through the roof. the waiting lists are years long. Aspirational branding at it's best..

Jaguar XKR - not as much prestige as an Aston. Does this automatically mean it's rubbish? (Irrespective of the fact that it comes from the same platform?)

Not here's an interesting point - demand is quite good for it because it's NEW! But once it's not the "in" thing.. does that mean it's rubbish?... No.
But from a market point of view.. it's obsolete. Again... the next model has come along and the masses want the next best thing. Top down marketing at its best..

Theoretically the companies work for the consumer. However - there is such a thing as the marketing department. Their job is to CREATE demand... so who's driving things? The consumer? Or the company?
Admittedly there are exceptions.. but I'd say that RC is definately top end driven..


What I do agree on however, is this division between HB and HPI. In my eyes, it was always HPI that was the premier brand. Racing!!
Pro2, Pro3, Pro4... all great racers.. (Well.. pro3.. maybe..)

HB was just a toy car company making RTR"s..

Not sure why it has seemingly changed?...

But I certainly never understood it..

Enough of my ranting.. feel free to agree or disagree! It's a free world!

(For the record - I am angry at HB. parts support seems to be lacking! Those Cyclone parts disappear like hotcakes! Perhaps the car is just too popular!)

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Old 09-22-2006, 07:58 AM   #14680
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Originally Posted by AngryAsian
(For the record - I am angry at HB. parts support seems to be lacking! Those Cyclone parts disappear like hotcakes! Perhaps the car is just too popular!)
Yeah im going to the dark side and getting a Cyclone S to play with (im keeping my poor battered pro 4 though). Im also surprised at what appears to be a lack of supplies for non-pro 4 compatible cyclone parts around. And the fact that they have discontinued the hara and surikarn kits. It makes me wonder about Hot Bodies and whether their manufacturing processes are up to scratch.

Personally i wouldve thought that Hara (not just a great driver but real gent and ambasador of hpi/hot bodies) has a big enough following to warrant a continuing supply of his kit. Also his kit is purple, which i associate with HPI hop ups from the Pro 4.
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Old 09-22-2006, 08:14 AM   #14681
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That is my point right there. HPI took their premier driver, Atsushi Hara<---got rice , from successful ass kickings with the R40 and the PRO4, and decided (or so it appeared) that he would catapult (with Surikarn) the Cyclone. He was kicking tail with it, he and Suri get a line, and then they are discontinued. I notice that they came out as limited editions, but damn. Then, parts support isn't all that great for the vehicles (some people never even heard of HotBodies) and yet, the HPI/HotBodies management continues to roll out the car???? Every hobby store worth it's weight in salt carries some form of HPI parts and that yellowish/orange and white background with those three letters are very well known and synonomous with quality, so what the heck? I don't know exactly how many Cyclone's are selling, but I'll bet angry asians lifetime supply of chopsticks that if it were labelled "HPI Pro5", it would've moved more units than HotBodies Cyclone!
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Old 09-22-2006, 09:21 PM   #14682
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull
That is my point right there. HPI took their premier driver, Atsushi Hara<---got rice , from successful ass kickings with the R40 and the PRO4, and decided (or so it appeared) that he would catapult (with Surikarn) the Cyclone. He was kicking tail with it, he and Suri get a line, and then they are discontinued. I notice that they came out as limited editions, but damn. Then, parts support isn't all that great for the vehicles (some people never even heard of HotBodies) and yet, the HPI/HotBodies management continues to roll out the car???? Every hobby store worth it's weight in salt carries some form of HPI parts and that yellowish/orange and white background with those three letters are very well known and synonomous with quality, so what the heck? I don't know exactly how many Cyclone's are selling, but I'll bet angry asians lifetime supply of chopsticks that if it were labelled "HPI Pro5", it would've moved more units than HotBodies Cyclone!
Or maybe they just wanted to make Hot Bodies a major brand in the sedan world.

Its pretty laughable that you're so stuck on HPI branding. Arguing that consumers are justified in not buying a new improved Escalade if GM changed the branding from Cadillac to Chevy is obviously flawed. "Sorry guys, even though you made it better, I won't buy it because it doesnt say Cadillac on it!"
Its not even as if you have to go through different distributors to get Hot Bodies parts v. HPI parts. So all the hobby shops "worth their salt" that don't carry Cyclone parts are doing the racers a disservice.
Furthermore some of us actually PREFER the Hot Bodies branding

======================
Like I said, why don't you worry about something 1000x more important.... how tons of HPI/HB parts arent available in the US, or to a lesser extent international shortages (Cyclone aluminum diff halves).
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Old 09-23-2006, 03:13 AM   #14683
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You obviously flood are caught up in a time warp or dont do any type of shopping on your own. While it might seem "laughable" to you, to some of us who started with HPI and believe in the BRAND, buying something from a sister company just wont do. Tell you what...Banana republic, the Gap and Old Navy are all related companies; go to Banana Republic, get a shirt and say since you guys are all owned by the same company, give me this 95 dollar shirt for the Old Navy price of 16.75.....better yet, tell Ford, why have the Mazda Navajo, Mercury Mountaineer and the Ford Explorer, they are all owned by the same company, roll off the same factory line, they should all be the same....NOT.....And you cannot tell me that the Chevy Tahoe, no matter how g'ed up, is the same as an Escalade. If so, you are lower budget than I thought.It isnt laughable for those of us who remember the companies as two seperate entities. And Hotbodies is the elite arm, make the announcement. Dont keep it shrouded in secret. But you know what, you mr. know it all so why even bother. jackass.
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Old 09-23-2006, 03:18 AM   #14684
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Whoa... it's just a toy car mate!!!


For the record... I have exactly three pairs of chopsticks on reserve. They never get used. LMAO!!! HAHhahahaha

No need to get personal.. we're all free to have our own opinion.
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:05 AM   #14685
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HPI racing is all about the money......and there is more money in showing savages and baja's at racing events, than producing racing cars,hpi challenges,and hara's hotel bills........

for some reason,they never followed through with the r40,and the pro 4 debacle speaks for itself....

I've loved HPI products since 1996,and own over 20 of them....but I see a serious lack of commitment towards anything racing oriented..next year,my money goes to serpent or x ray.....
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