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Old 05-19-2006, 07:46 AM   #14386
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Nice to hear....

i hope hoping against something like that. there's nothing wrong with the current suspension stuff.

And because i have the pro4, my next buy will have to be a cyclone!! Or.. maybe a pro5.. but i would guess that's a ways off yet..
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Old 05-19-2006, 10:16 AM   #14387
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pro5 would be pretty interesting.

lowering the drivetrain is pretty obvious, as yokomo has already shown how to lower a shaft drive cg. but then you run into more steering setup issues. Obviously the current trend is to have the steering tie rods be as long as possible (as evidenced by tamiya's new steering design at the worlds), but that doesnt reconcile very well with a shaft running right down the middle! also keeping the pro4 steering knucles makes this harder to solve, since you cant change the location of the ballstud to accomodate for bellcrank changes...

really tho, im suprised that hpi sees a market large enough for a shaft drive car. with the cyclone they where able to fix the 2 big flaws of the pro4 (shaft drive, and high cg) as well as add a lot of benefits (light drivetrain, less bearings in drivetrain, x ray style steering (low ackerman), finally now blades on the "dogbone", etc). so its suprising that enough people are still interested in the shaft to keep a market going for them to make a shaft drive pro5

not to mention that the cyclone s, puts a wierd twist on things too.


we'll see how it goes down!
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Old 05-19-2006, 04:45 PM   #14388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floodo1
pro5 would be pretty interesting.

lowering the drivetrain is pretty obvious, as yokomo has already shown how to lower a shaft drive cg. but then you run into more steering setup issues. Obviously the current trend is to have the steering tie rods be as long as possible (as evidenced by tamiya's new steering design at the worlds), but that doesnt reconcile very well with a shaft running right down the middle! also keeping the pro4 steering knucles makes this harder to solve, since you cant change the location of the ballstud to accomodate for bellcrank changes...

really tho, im suprised that hpi sees a market large enough for a shaft drive car. with the cyclone they where able to fix the 2 big flaws of the pro4 (shaft drive, and high cg) as well as add a lot of benefits (light drivetrain, less bearings in drivetrain, x ray style steering (low ackerman), finally now blades on the "dogbone", etc). so its suprising that enough people are still interested in the shaft to keep a market going for them to make a shaft drive pro5

not to mention that the cyclone s, puts a wierd twist on things too.


we'll see how it goes down!
Designing a new shaft (the Pro 5) is an obvious next move. Both cars can easily exist under the same umbrella. Other companies have already shown this to be true. No mystery, here. The shaft drive, by no means, was a design flaw. The higher "CG" is just a product of technological, design advancements made by others companies who have released new kits since the Pro 4's 2+ year old release date.
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Old 05-19-2006, 06:12 PM   #14389
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does anyone have the Pro 4 carpet setup? thanks
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Old 05-19-2006, 06:56 PM   #14390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kewdawg
Designing a new shaft (the Pro 5) is an obvious next move. Both cars can easily exist under the same umbrella. Other companies have already shown this to be true. No mystery, here. The shaft drive, by no means, was a design flaw. The higher "CG" is just a product of technological, design advancements made by others companies who have released new kits since the Pro 4's 2+ year old release date.
the shaft is flawed in designing the steering, if you constrain yourself to using pro4 knuckles.

as the shaft sits in the pro4 its still too low to get a steering system that is even close to the xray/cyclone style. then if you lower the shaft even more (for cg) then you would have to make the steering system sit above the shaft, and thats not possible with the pro4 knuckles.

so thats a major design consideration in continuing with a shaft drive car.


Dont get me wrong, i'd like my pro4 to have lower cg, and be a new car!!!! shaft drive IS nice for stock
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Old 05-20-2006, 01:07 AM   #14391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guo Chean
does anyone have the Pro 4 carpet setup? thanks
Hara's? foams or rubber on carpet?
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Old 05-20-2006, 01:40 AM   #14392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc-zombies
Hara's? foams or rubber on carpet?
what ever as long as carpet setup
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Old 05-20-2006, 08:56 AM   #14393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guo Chean
what ever as long as carpet setup
Stock or Mod., 3mm Chassis or 2.5mm.
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Old 05-20-2006, 09:22 AM   #14394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floodo1
pro5 would be pretty interesting.

lowering the drivetrain is pretty obvious, as yokomo has already shown how to lower a shaft drive cg. but then you run into more steering setup issues. Obviously the current trend is to have the steering tie rods be as long as possible (as evidenced by tamiya's new steering design at the worlds), but that doesnt reconcile very well with a shaft running right down the middle! also keeping the pro4 steering knucles makes this harder to solve, since you cant change the location of the ballstud to accomodate for bellcrank changes...

really tho, im suprised that hpi sees a market large enough for a shaft drive car. with the cyclone they where able to fix the 2 big flaws of the pro4 (shaft drive, and high cg) as well as add a lot of benefits (light drivetrain, less bearings in drivetrain, x ray style steering (low ackerman), finally now blades on the "dogbone", etc). so its suprising that enough people are still interested in the shaft to keep a market going for them to make a shaft drive pro5

not to mention that the cyclone s, puts a wierd twist on things too.


we'll see how it goes down!
You're comments maybe considered but just leave the job to HPI. I'm sure they know what they're doing.

Just curious, have you even designed a whole car to criticize other designs? Are you a "so exert" on finding flaws with touring cars?

The Pro4 is a great car. I am not bias. I wouldn't buy it if it wasn't. I trust that HPI will surely come up with a better shaft driven car than the Pro4.

Some manufacturers may have designed cars not well enough but there is always room for improvements. That's is why they come up with hop-up parts. In that way, those parts make the cars more stable and better.

There are so many people discouraging other people from driving shaft. Why? They say it's better on modified motors. Not true! Surikarn kicked a lot of belted cars with his Evo 3. Hara and Andy Moore beat a lot of belts with their Pro4. All in modified classes.

I'm 99% sure that once the Pro5 comes out, Hara will be driving it too.

It's up to the driver's skill regardless of the drivetrain. Not just the drivetrain alone!


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Old 05-20-2006, 12:04 PM   #14395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxkat
Stock or Mod., 3mm Chassis or 2.5mm.
stock class, i using the excel 2.4mm chassis and the deck i using is the original 2.5mm
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Old 05-20-2006, 02:51 PM   #14396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicadrauspro4
You're comments maybe considered but just leave the job to HPI. I'm sure they know what they're doing.

Just curious, have you even designed a whole car to criticize other designs? Are you a "so exert" on finding flaws with touring cars?

The Pro4 is a great car. I am not bias. I wouldn't buy it if it wasn't. I trust that HPI will surely come up with a better shaft driven car than the Pro4.

Some manufacturers may have designed cars not well enough but there is always room for improvements. That's is why they come up with hop-up parts. In that way, those parts make the cars more stable and better.

There are so many people discouraging other people from driving shaft. Why? They say it's better on modified motors. Not true! Surikarn kicked a lot of belted cars with his Evo 3. Hara and Andy Moore beat a lot of belts with their Pro4. All in modified classes.

I'm 99% sure that once the Pro5 comes out, Hara will be driving it too.

It's up to the driver's skill regardless of the drivetrain. Not just the drivetrain alone!


yup i agree with you. i also have a few shaft driven car but in fact they did not drive the shaft drive car and win the IFMAR champian that why they came out another belt drive. if HPI or HB did not came out a belt drive car their shaft drive car market will be low demand.
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Old 05-20-2006, 07:30 PM   #14397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicadrauspro4
You're comments maybe considered but just leave the job to HPI. I'm sure they know what they're doing.

Just curious, have you even designed a whole car to criticize other designs? Are you a "so exert" on finding flaws with touring cars?

There are so many people discouraging other people from driving shaft. Why? They say it's better on modified motors. Not true! Surikarn kicked a lot of belted cars with his Evo 3. Hara and Andy Moore beat a lot of belts with their Pro4. All in modified classes.

I'm 99% sure that once the Pro5 comes out, Hara will be driving it too.

It's up to the driver's skill regardless of the drivetrain. Not just the drivetrain alone!


Actually Josh has designed a few.. They were Oval cars but theory is theory when it comes to suspension. Belt cars are easier to drive fast constantly. For me driving the Pro4 fast in Mod is not easy. The drivers your talking about are some of the best in the world.. Hara and Surikarn are faster with the Cyclone than they were with the Pro4 or Evo3. I can agree to a point about the drivers skill and the drivetrain. I have seen a few guys that were racing the Pro4 that did not do very well with it, They went to a belt car and did better with them. The Pro4 is a great car but it's not for everyone..
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Old 05-20-2006, 09:34 PM   #14398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicadrauspro4
Just curious, have you even designed a whole car to criticize other designs? Are you a "so exert" on finding flaws with touring cars?
i wont both responding to this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicadrauspro4
There are so many people discouraging other people from driving shaft. Why? They say it's better on modified motors. Not true! Surikarn kicked a lot of belted cars with his Evo 3. Hara and Andy Moore beat a lot of belts with their Pro4. All in modified classes.
You have to put yourself in the position of HPI/HB. Or at least try to, I can only speculate.

You have to ask yourself why hpi didnt develop the cyclone as a shaft drive car. Major factors I'm guessing are: low cg with belts, belts allow for xray style bellcrank (ackerman), belt drive uses long bulkheads therefore flexing chassis much differntly than pro4, shaft drive has torque issues, etc. As you can see this is quite a few differences between shaft and belt.

The simple point is, using a shaft brings a LOT of design constraints, as compared to the cyclone, which is the current generation for HPI/HB. I'm sure HPI/HB is capable of figuring something kewl out.
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Old 05-21-2006, 11:16 AM   #14399
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As much as I know the Pro 4 will be last among the shaft tourers of hpi. They dont plan to come out with anything like it. Well seems this shaftee will be forever.
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Old 05-22-2006, 05:25 AM   #14400
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I have an unexpected race coming up at a venue i have no experience racing at...

Does anyone have a setup for an indoor asphalt circuit?
I assume it'll be tight and twisty..
I've also been told it will have reasonable grip. Not high, but not too bad either.
And it's quite bumpy for an indoor track!!

Setups setups!! LoL.. i'm flying blind...
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