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Old 04-28-2004, 10:32 PM   #4081
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Default Re: Carpet set-up Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by rayhuang
As i drive this car at The Gate-I find myself looking for more steering and quicker transition-a LOT more corner speed. Things the car had loads of at another carpet track. Weird. Both Ozite tracks-but ones BIg and ones small.

Anyways-my newest question for you smart guys is-Hara;s recommended set-up for the Gate is 0 degree front arm sweep. Thats also what Erik was talking about on his last post.

Why is there 2.5 degrees arm sweep in car now and why would 0 be better? I am NOT arguing-just trying to learn.

SOmeone please explain.

Thanks,
Ray
Ray....the 2.5 toe in makes the car more stable and not very aggressive. The 0 deg or lesser amount is going to do a couple things to the car....1 change the wheel base thus making the cars wheel base longer....the longer car will have more steering.....2 change the drive shaft angle which will effect the traction at that end of the car....It will sweep the CVD's more towards the front of the car which will increase forward bite and decrease side bite....3 with the sweep out of the arms it will change the way the shock moves through its arc....and I would think make the shock pack up harder the further in its movement it gets....4 also decrease the front track width making the car more narrow from axle to axle.....So all of these factors will lead to the front of the car being more reactive and alive....which is what you need on foams but its not desired on rubber tires....so that's why I would guess HPI included them in the kit. HPI wanted to get the car out there so anyone could take the car out of the box and drive it....and in most cases that's what happens. So once you get these blocks try them out and see what you notice.
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:36 PM   #4082
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I just want everyone to know this that Kevin Kane likes to bump in too the boards all the way around the track and run in the marbles so his setup tips might be a little off the wall
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:37 PM   #4083
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Default Re: Hobby People

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Originally posted by popsracer
Guys;

In defence of Hobby People, you have to understand that the stores are corporate owned. Each store receives it's merchandise (kits, parts, etc.) based on what the main office/warehouse sends us.
I've always been able to get the stuff I wanted or needed at Hobby People...no sweat at all. Gotta love the Red Tag bin, too. I bought a TON of cool Pro 3 stuff there for super cheap...looks like I'll have a chance to use it up now.

BTW -- I just got home from Ultimate. They are direct with HPI. They have maybe 15 items on the hook for the Pro 4. They have a zillion 0 degree c-hubs (no others), about ten zillion shock seal kits(two hooks full, probably 30-40), one shaft, (had) one gear set, (had) one set of one-way outdrives...basically, they have squat on the shelf and everything else is on backorder.

When I told them what HPI was saying about the situation..."Yeah, that's what HPI always says, they always say it's our fault. Nothing new." Half the guys started in on how tough HPI is to deal with parts-wise.

These guys (Ultimate) are "down for the cause" -- they have a section all open, just waiting for Pro 4 stuff to (eventually) arrive...and since they ARE a distributor and they HAVE ordered the stuff...what's the holdup now?

One guy there said..."Just get another kit" I said, "Yeah...then what happens 5 minutes later when I need a part for that one?"

If you have the stuff there...the PUT IT UP ON BUY HPI. Sorry to yell...but it's kind of a "put up or shut up" deal at this point. Tamiya and Yokomo sell direct (at list)...so do you guys.
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:40 PM   #4084
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Now wait a minute here Drew...I dont think that I was actually in the marbles....I just "guided" you out there so you could play with them....then you decided to play a little pin ball with your car and the track......

Ps....May 9th.....check out www.AJsraceway.com for info.....open mod on 27's The boarder system they show in the pics is a year old...the stuff now is AWESOME....
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:46 PM   #4085
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Tres, saw your handiwork today at SWR, Scotty Barnes showed me the front plate decal you did for Grant Gifford's Reedy charger. Great work. If I want to get something similar let me know what to do,

Thanks
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Old 04-29-2004, 01:56 AM   #4086
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Default Re: Re: Hobby People

Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo Joe
When I told them what HPI was saying about the situation
Just a note - I am not the official voice of HPI in any way. Just noting my observations. Obviously there's some issue but I can't say exactly where it is. I just tried to explain the process the way I saw it, the best I could.
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:41 AM   #4087
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Frank- Thanks for your help. We do appreciate it.
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:22 AM   #4088
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sanman-G35sc, thanks.

email me at tres@tresleonard.com
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:44 AM   #4089
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Default Re: Re: Carpet set-up Questions

Kevin, and others,

Thanks for the arm sweep ideas. The Pro4 is so calm in steering right now that its almost like its on depressants. Everything you said is what I am looking for on the Pro4 in terms of steering.

Ray


Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin K
Ray....the 2.5 toe in makes the car more stable and not very aggressive. The 0 deg or lesser amount is going to do a couple things to the car....1 change the wheel base thus making the cars wheel base longer....the longer car will have more steering.....2 change the drive shaft angle which will effect the traction at that end of the car....It will sweep the CVD's more towards the front of the car which will increase forward bite and decrease side bite....3 with the sweep out of the arms it will change the way the shock moves through its arc....and I would think make the shock pack up harder the further in its movement it gets....4 also decrease the front track width making the car more narrow from axle to axle.....So all of these factors will lead to the front of the car being more reactive and alive....which is what you need on foams but its not desired on rubber tires....so that's why I would guess HPI included them in the kit. HPI wanted to get the car out there so anyone could take the car out of the box and drive it....and in most cases that's what happens. So once you get these blocks try them out and see what you notice.
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Old 04-29-2004, 08:09 AM   #4090
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Default Re: Re: Re: Hobby People

Quote:
Originally posted by Frank McKinney
Just a note - I am not the official voice of HPI in any way. Just noting my observations. Obviously there's some issue but I can't say exactly where it is. I just tried to explain the process the way I saw it, the best I could.
Understood...you just gave the unabridged version, where Erik did the Cliff Notes.

I still say that if things really are that way (nobody placing the orders, not really a supply problem on HPI's end)...there would be no substantive harm done by selling the parts direct on Buy HPI. Nobody should get bent out of shape, right? When the rest of the supply chain gets up to HPI's "speed", the local shops are going to be selling the parts anyways...
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:42 AM   #4091
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While we are on the point of steering with the PRO 4, has any body else noticed that when going round a left hand sweeper and decelerating into an hairpin how the car can sundenly snap round and go into major oversteer (this does not happen in the same type of bend when turning right). A least 4 Pro 4s at my local club have the same problem but all with differant setups. Apart from this small problem the car drives great. I have notice that some people run differant rear droop from side to side and wondered if it is for this reason.
If anyone knows how to solve this please share.
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:50 AM   #4092
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IN the stock ackermann position if you use full lock-the insde wheel start to turn at a very high rate compared to the outside. I wonder if some of them tried position 2 I think it is on the steering drag link if the problem would go away.

DOnt know-but maybe.

Ray
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:10 PM   #4093
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Steve, this may not make sense but do you have the car balanced weight wise from side to side and front to rear? I wonder if the lack of weight on the right side may have an affect on the loading of the tires differently when turning? There would be less weight on the outside tires when turning left than to the right. ramble,ramble I bet it is something that simple though.

Ray,my ackerman is in the #3 position. I have had pretty good luck in that position. The steering seems aggressive on the tracks I have been on.
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Old 04-29-2004, 02:20 PM   #4094
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve B
While we are on the point of steering with the PRO 4, has any body else noticed that when going round a left hand sweeper and decelerating into an hairpin how the car can sundenly snap round and go into major oversteer (this does not happen in the same type of bend when turning right). A least 4 Pro 4s at my local club have the same problem but all with differant setups. Apart from this small problem the car drives great. I have notice that some people run differant rear droop from side to side and wondered if it is for this reason.
If anyone knows how to solve this please share.
I have also noticed this, seems very strange, I race on carpet so every time it does it I blame it on hitting the tape just wrong but now I've heard you are having problems too then that may not be the problem.

I think it will be either to do with the tweak, or the droop settings, or possibly the weight distribution. I have been told to set the left rear wheel with 1mm more droop than the rest to eliminate torque steer, I wonder if that could make it handle better too?

The problem only occurs every 5 or 6 times in a race, so I think it could be a combination of a few things and when you just push a little too hard it just loses it. Haven't tried changing the Ackerman positions but to be honest I don't think that will stop this sort of problem.
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Old 04-29-2004, 02:45 PM   #4095
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In reversw order.

Skill
I find the same thing. It does not happen all the time but when just like u have said, but I dont get it when pushing hard in right turns. I have tried differant ackerman positions to no effect.

Doug
I have balanced the car. It seems pretty close f/r & l/r but it still does the same with or without balance weights.

Rayhuang
I have tried position 2 with ackerman and it does make it turn in less aggresive but does not get rid of the problem.

What I am planning to do next week is try differant droop or differant shock spring nut heights to tweak the ride height from left to right. I wonder if anyone has tried this.
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