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Tamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X

Old 01-20-2010, 07:32 PM
  #7921  
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Lol I think we are getting confused here. I was referring to the outdrives for the front spool and not the swing shafts. I am currently using the steel 44mm swing shafts btw.

I think people are referring to the chatter that the steel outdrives make that supposedly makes you lose steering? Or is it from using the 46mm swing shafts?
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:33 PM
  #7922  
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Originally Posted by Joey4875
Does anyone use ECSs instead of the CVDs on the X? What the next best option if the steel shafts takes away steering other then the aluminum one? One more thing whats the advantage of the 46mm over the 44mm shafts
Joey, 46's should make the car smoother than with the 44's. Maybe a tick less steering, but smoother overall. Better for mod, maybe not necessary for stock. I don't think the car needs it for stock after driving hoffman's. I don't really think it needs a DCJ either, the tamiya CVDs are very smooth as is, not sure how much, if any you'd gain with them (especially in stock)
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:45 PM
  #7923  
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Originally Posted by inpuressa
Lol I think we are getting confused here. I was referring to the outdrives for the front spool and not the swing shafts. I am currently using the steel 44mm swing shafts btw.

I think people are referring to the chatter that the steel outdrives make that supposedly makes you lose steering? Or is it from using the 46mm swing shafts?
I have read that the chatter comes from the swing shafts not the out drives.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:39 PM
  #7924  
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The swing shaft doesn't move as freely in a steel cup which creates less roll and that takes away steering. The 46mm swing shafts will chatter a little more than the 44s but they will look after the delrin cups
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:20 AM
  #7925  
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Originally Posted by gashuffer
I have read that the chatter comes from the swing shafts not the out drives.
It mostly comes from the universal joint. I have found the stock delrin spool outdrives to be smoother than the steel outdrives that my Serpent S400 used, however.
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:12 AM
  #7926  
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Originally Posted by MikeR
Ok I will try again. Just that it's is off left to right. Front to back is ok. Thanks- M
That's really weird, I've never had that problem on any of my kits. Can you shim the standoff out .3 from the motor plate?
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:19 AM
  #7927  
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Originally Posted by Randy Caster
That's really weird, I've never had that problem on any of my kits. Can you shim the standoff out .3 from the motor plate?
Personally, that standoff never made sense to me. Why would you want to brace one bulkhead to the lower chassis, and not the other.

After shaving off 1mm from the bottom of my motor mount on my 415MSXX, I never spaced & reattached that last screw underneath. Car runs great w/ perfectly symetrical flex on the lower chassis. Of course that car has a center T-bar bracing both bulkheads to the lower chassis...

Has anybody tried running their 416 without the motor mount standoff?
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:22 AM
  #7928  
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Originally Posted by Joey4875
Does anyone use ECSs instead of the CVDs on the X? What the next best option if the steel shafts takes away steering other then the aluminum one? One more thing whats the advantage of the 46mm over the 44mm shafts
I have run the Atomic ECS in a 416, and did a little write up about them in some previous posts. They definately take the chatter out of the car, what little the stock one has. Things to look out for, the pins break and they are about 43 and change for length, this is causing broken outdrives in some cases, as the tip of the swing shaft is too close to the end of the outdrive and puts extra pressure on that end. The 46 steel swing shafts are prefered as the sit deeper in the plunge of the outdrive where its in a stronger position. If your using the black outdrive cups the 46 is the way to go, I have run shorter swing shafts but have used the white 415 outdrives which seem to be less brittle, but require some mods for proper clearence between the bulk heads. The broken pins can be replaced with drill bit blanks or hardened rod, I use the drill bits, I buy the exact size bit and cut it off. The other trick here is the setscrew that holds the pins in puts extra pressure on the pin and the wall thickness of the setscrew makes them prone to stripping. My cure for this is to get rid of the setscrews completely and use shrink wrap, like LOSI does to hold the pins in. Since I did this I haven't broke a pin yet. another thing to look out for with the ECS is there is still a clearence issue in the c-hub, something I hadn't noticed before, but in straightline they are okay, but in lock to lock, the ECS shifts just enough to touch the inner hole of the c-hub, so best to check that out as it will cause drag.

Also if you do run the 46 swing shafts but go to a narrow front width setting check to make sure that axles aren't binding in the outdrive cup. Best way to check is to remove your front shocks and while rotating the the cars rear wheels, lift the front suspension arms one at a time through full travel, if the swingshafts are binding you'll feel it throught the rotation.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:40 AM
  #7929  
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone
Also if you do run the 46 swing shafts but go to a narrow front width setting check to make sure that axles aren't binding in the outdrive cup. Best way to check is to remove your front shocks and while rotating the the cars rear wheels, lift the front suspension arms one at a time through full travel, if the swingshafts are binding you'll feel it throught the rotation.
I was going to say can 46mm swing shafts be used when using CC blocks up front on the 416X? I can understand using 46mm SS's if DD up front, but otherwise shouldn't the stock 44mm SS's be used when using the CC blocks?
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:08 PM
  #7930  
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Originally Posted by Apex
I was going to say can 46mm swing shafts be used when using CC blocks up front on the 416X? I can understand using 46mm SS's if DD up front, but otherwise shouldn't the stock 44mm SS's be used when using the CC blocks?
The 46mm shafts are ok with the stock CC block setup but once you go any narrower on the blocks they will bind.
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:33 PM
  #7931  
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Originally Posted by 94eg!
Personally, that standoff never made sense to me. Why would you want to brace one bulkhead to the lower chassis, and not the other.

After shaving off 1mm from the bottom of my motor mount on my 415MSXX, I never spaced & reattached that last screw underneath. Car runs great w/ perfectly symetrical flex on the lower chassis. Of course that car has a center T-bar bracing both bulkheads to the lower chassis...

Has anybody tried running their 416 without the motor mount standoff?
With the high power of the BL motors the standoff helps keep everything from flexing under acceleration. It also moves the mounting point from the left side of the car to the center to provide equal left/right flex.

You could get away without running the screw on the 415 platforms because the T brace did essentially the same thing as the new standoff does.
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:45 PM
  #7932  
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Originally Posted by KHoff7
The 46mm shafts are ok with the stock CC block setup but once you go any narrower on the blocks they will bind.
+1
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:49 PM
  #7933  
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For what it's worth, TOP and XRay went to the leg on the motor mount on their cars, something I think Tamiya originated.

I'm at the track right now running 46mm bones with C/C up front on my WE and it's working great.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:03 PM
  #7934  
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Originally Posted by rnd_tang
OK,

I can not work it out. I swapped the servo with another one that I know it working perfectly and nothing, same issue.

Tightened the rear diff up abit, nothing. Chassis is completely flat…

Could it be that I have a faulty front spool? I will try more toe out tonight...
Well, it's hard to say from a distance.
Make sure your shocks have the same length and your shocks filled equally (R-L equal rebound).

Set your droop and downstop properly, and make sure your suspension blocks are aligned perfectly (equal toe value left and right side).

Look for some parts that might be binding, or maybe a shaft pin has loosened a little. Look for faulty bearings as well.

Make sure your camber left and right are set equally and give the front a little bit toe out.

Try to mount a new set of tires.

You say you tightened your diff a bit more, but does your diff slip or doesn't it?

If your delrin spool cups are worn out, replace them with new ones.

Servo saver screw too long?

Transmitter ok? Does the steering-wheel/stick move smooth around the neutral steering point, or does it get stuck a bit around the neutral point (if you know what I mean)?

That would be my checklist for now...
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:54 PM
  #7935  
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Originally Posted by Randy Caster
With the high power of the BL motors the standoff helps keep everything from flexing under acceleration. It also moves the mounting point from the left side of the car to the center to provide equal left/right flex.

You could get away without running the screw on the 415 platforms because the T brace did essentially the same thing as the new standoff does.
Yeah that makes sense. Thanks! I wonder if running without the leg in "stock" classes would give any benefits?
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