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Old 05-18-2009, 08:39 AM   #5431
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:50 AM   #5432
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Originally Posted by John St.Amant View Post
No.... Hudy and X-Ray overcharge so people think they are getting the best stuff when all you are doing is paying for which-ever sponsored drivers free parts.
...
If the '09 was so good it would be world champ instead of Marc and a 416.
Not sure about that. If that was the case it would only work once. People are not stupid. Once they buy and discover a product is crap (or too expensive, etc) they go away and buy the cheaper and potentially better car. That's what I do anyway.

As for Marc, may I point out that he is the champion, not the car. That's why it's called the drivers championship not the car championship. Give him an Xray and he's still a champion. But I don't think there is too much difference between the cars running at top level. And I think that is true of most sports where not the shoes or t-shirts or whatever makes the difference but the sportsperson using it. Einstein is anectodically quoted as saying that his library knows a lot more about physics than he does, yet he's the physicist!

Besides quality may not be the entire story. Tamiya for instance makes the best quality bodyshells but I don't see them being run in competitions so there you go. Quality does not necessarily equal performance.

Some people will always prefer one car or another but that doesn't necessarily say anything about quality, so don't take it personal. Xray simply had to be top quality to break into an established market. Let's just hope they don't give up and others follow. And you and I (and the rest of the market) only have to gain from their competing. Just look at the recent hystory and note how Tamiya had to lift their game from a few years back when the best they had was some TA03 or TB when Corally, Yokomo, Losi and AE were dominating the TC world and Xray was coming strong from behind. I think Tamiya benefitted from the competition and so did the market, so you should thank the likes of Xray and the others if you like your car that much.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:57 AM   #5433
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Not sure about that. If that was the case it would only work once. People are not stupid. Once they buy and discover a product is crap (or too expensive, etc) they go away and buy the cheaper and potentially better car. That's what I do anyway.

As for Marc, may I point out that he is the champion, not the car. That's why it's called the drivers championship not the car championship. Give him an Xray and he's still a champion. But I don't think there is too much difference between the cars running at top level. And I think that is true of most sports where not the shoes or t-shirts or whatever makes the difference but the sportsperson using it. Einstein is anectodically quoted as saying that his library knows a lot more about physics than he does, yet he's the physicist!

Besides quality may not be the entire story. Tamiya for instance makes the best quality bodyshells but I don't see them being run in competitions so there you go. Quality does not necessarily equal performance.

Some people will always prefer one car or another but that doesn't necessarily say anything about quality, so don't take it personal. Xray simply had to be top quality to break into an established market. Let's just hope they don't give up and others follow. And you and I (and the rest of the market) only have to gain from their competing. Just look at the recent hystory and note how Tamiya had to lift their game from a few years back when the best they had was some TA03 or TB when Corally, Yokomo, Losi and AE were dominating the TC world and Xray was coming strong from behind. I think Tamiya benefitted from the competition and so did the market, so you should thank the likes of Xray and the others if you like your car that much.
Sorry man , you got me wrong .. its a great car but it does not warrant the price gouging. i.e. belts.. X-ray... $20, Tamiya... $12, realizing that you don't always get what you pay for... priceless!
As far as M.R. lets just say this.... Jensen Button wasn't considered a good driver till Ross Brawn turned the now defunkt Honda into a championship winning ride. Drivers are Champions and Cars are Championship winning Chassis. One with out the other is NOTHING! It takes a TEAM to win.. not just Micheal Schumacher. Look at Ferrari.... Champions all around... But now with Jean Todt and Mike gone Mika and Reubens can't do squat. Its a total package. One piece missing and the puzzle is worthless. (Force India is missing a lot of pieces)
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:16 AM   #5434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John St.Amant View Post
Sorry man , you got me wrong .. its a great car but it does not warrant the price gouging. i.e. belts.. X-ray... $20, Tamiya... $12, realizing that you don't always get what you pay for... priceless!
As far as M.R. lets just say this.... Jensen Button wasn't considered a good driver till Ross Brawn turned the now defunkt Honda into a championship winning ride. Drivers are Champions and Cars are Championship winning Chassis. One with out the other is NOTHING! It takes a TEAM to win.. not just Micheal Schumacher. Look at Ferrari.... Champions all around... But now with Jean Todt and Mike gone Mika and Reubens can't do squat. Its a total package. One piece missing and the puzzle is worthless. (Force India is missing a lot of pieces)
I used to run tamiya and almost went back (but got good offer from local shop to run xray). Some of the parts X ray use are much more durable than tamiya, however the tamiya parts are cheaper so the cost works out about the same over time. I replaced some of my tamiya parts very often just from wear and tear, bits like wheel axles, diff outdrives, ball connectors, etc. I personally would only run Tamiya or Xray the other makes just don't seem durable enough at the club level.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:20 AM   #5435
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$20 for a belt? Didn't realize it cost that much. They must have made it from an out of space material....Talk about quality, well in my country they(xray drivers) are the one who replace belts more frequently...for me I have yet to replace mine yet, still like new....Maybe John has some truth about them paying more for parts prices to cover their sponsored drivers pay....John you convince me about that.... the only thing I had to replace is the Carbon composite CHub...but now not anymoe coz I m using the normal plastic one from IFS...and its very durable too...not to mention its dirt cheap as well...
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:21 AM   #5436
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I used to run tamiya and almost went back (but got good offer from local shop to run xray). Some of the parts X ray use are much more durable than tamiya, however the tamiya parts are cheaper so the cost works out about the same over time. I replaced some of my tamiya parts very often just from wear and tear, bits like wheel axles, diff outdrives, ball connectors, etc. I personally would only run Tamiya or Xray the other makes just don't seem durable enough at the club level.
Wow ... Okay but ... I've had my 416 since its inception and only have broken one front lower arm and three "C" hubs. since I've switched to the IFS upright ... no damage! That and I don't care for the lower hing pin attachments on the X-ray or the Phi for that matter . Both are very nice cars .. just not in my livery.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:32 AM   #5437
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Sorry man , you got me wrong .. its a great car but it does not warrant the price gouging. i.e. belts.. X-ray... $20, Tamiya... $12, realizing that you don't always get what you pay for... priceless!
I think price gouging refers to something else.

I am not sure how the price difference in belt prices comes about, but Xray relies on in house design and production whereas I think Tamiya outsources some of it and that may work better financially. Production volume and labour market are other factors that play in the equation too and I am not sure where things stack up there, so you see, it's a long shot to call it either way. On top of that trade agreements between countries play another part in the retail price, so you need to check locally to see how much tax there is on imports from Europe and compare that with those from Japan. But i didn't want to go down this rabbit hole. I am just talking about quality and Xray is in my view better. Not by much, but clearly better.

And I agree, sometimes you don't get all you pay for, but that's life. For us in Australia everything is even more expensive to buy since we don't have a Xray importer and we have a crap Tamiya importer (I don't think 416 ever came officially to Australia).
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:36 AM   #5438
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I haven't had a problem with breaking parts or parts prematurely wearing out at all. Not saying I've never broken a part, but anytime I've broken one, it wasn't a light tap.

Diff outdrives wearing out? Just replace the blades on your universals and the outdrives will last forever. The axles have 4 holes instead of 2, so rather than replacing them, Tamiya gives you the option to move the pin to the other hole and basically have a brand new axle for free.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:07 AM   #5439
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what do you mean the axles have 4 holes?
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:48 AM   #5440
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Tryhard-You get my last pm?
Hey Clint,

Yeah I did, sorry I ain't responded, was very busy last week with work and preping everything for the first national (Car and reporting gear for this year!)

Anyway, YGPM back

Cheers
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:13 PM   #5441
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One thing the XRay has over the Tamiya is that it's Luxuriously Optimized. Nuff said!
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:16 PM   #5442
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what do you mean the axles have 4 holes?
The Tamiya axles have 4 holes for the drive pin on the universal. If one pair of the holes should wear out, just use the other pair of holes rather than replacing the axle.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:19 PM   #5443
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what do you mean the axles have 4 holes?
.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:27 PM   #5444
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.
There are two sets of holes at 90 degrees.
Problem is the cup gets elongated and beat to death by the drive shaft long before the pin holes wear out. But then usually only when using a spool.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:58 PM   #5445
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So is Tamiya gonna release some more kits before IIC, or do I have to get that Chinese knockoff? My current car is pretty haggard from a TON of use. I'd like to bring a new kit to Vegas.
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