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Old 05-01-2009, 03:26 AM   #5266
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John, I am very sorry that you apparantly are completely unable to actually read my posts for real. I am also very sorry that you cannot follow the logic I presented. Just because a certain setting would under normal circumstances not be used does not mean it is not valuable to think it through. There is after all a REASON WHY you would never use that setting and that is the point I am making.

However, thankfully I was not making my points so much for as I was making them for the other readers, especially the ones that are just starting out. Most if not all of them will be able to follow both our logic and make up their own mind which makes the most sense. Personally I feel you are confusing the issue because you yourself keep confusing the total effect of settings combined with the principal effect of a single setting. To setup a car you need to be able to reason out how each single setting works and then use logic to combine the effects of the different settings to figure out how the car will react.

I will say this once more, setting up a car is not a linear business and therefore most, if not all, rules of thumb are flawed.
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Old 05-01-2009, 05:59 AM   #5267
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John, I am very sorry that you apparantly are completely unable to actually read my posts for real. I am also very sorry that you cannot follow the logic I presented. Just because a certain setting would under normal circumstances not be used does not mean it is not valuable to think it through. There is after all a REASON WHY you would never use that setting and that is the point I am making.

However, thankfully I was not making my points so much for as I was making them for the other readers, especially the ones that are just starting out. Most if not all of them will be able to follow both our logic and make up their own mind which makes the most sense. Personally I feel you are confusing the issue because you yourself keep confusing the total effect of settings combined with the principal effect of a single setting. To setup a car you need to be able to reason out how each single setting works and then use logic to combine the effects of the different settings to figure out how the car will react.

I will say this once more, setting up a car is not a linear business and therefore most, if not all, rules of thumb are flawed.

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Old 05-01-2009, 06:12 AM   #5268
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Bullship

Basically, a tyre provides the most grip when its contact patch is at its maximum. Therefore there is not 1 optimum camber setting, as the camber should constantly change with the roll of the car.

As Tony said, -1.5deg is generally around the right compromise for having the maximum contact patch over 1 lap. Anything more than that and sometimes you will get the tyre to have a larger contact patch over 1 lap, sometimes you won't.

Like Ed and Tony say, its a compromise and you cannot simply say more camber = more grip.

Ideally you would want a different camber setting for each corner, so the contact patch is at its optimum for the amount of roll the car has.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:02 AM   #5269
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oh get over it allready

Has anyone modified their motor mount to fit a Johnson 540?
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:09 AM   #5270
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are you guys e-fighting over r/c setups?
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:40 AM   #5271
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Basically, a tyre provides the most grip when its contact patch is at its maximum.
not always true, just so ya know. sometimes you lower the contact patch to get the tire to operate at a higher temp to make the tire work. example street circuits sometimes you run more camber to make the contact patch hotter to get the tire to work. (more common on compounds on the harder side)
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:48 AM   #5272
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oh get over it allready

Has anyone modified their motor mount to fit a Johnson 540?
I have not, but I have talked to a person that has and they said they had to do a fair amount of dremeling to get the johnson to fit. And he emphisized "a lot" of dremeling.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:36 AM   #5273
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I suggested universal connectivity and was outright chastised because the deans plugs were "better" . You think EFRA would want inferior technology as a standard? I didn't think so either. Tell me I'm wrong again! Go on!!
I'd rather not have an internal soldered board to break during a race, but hey, I don't mind if others do
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:52 AM   #5274
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Basically, a tyre provides the most grip when its contact patch is at its maximum. Therefore there is not 1 optimum camber setting, as the camber should constantly change with the roll of the car.

As Tony said, -1.5deg is generally around the right compromise for having the maximum contact patch over 1 lap. Anything more than that and sometimes you will get the tyre to have a larger contact patch over 1 lap, sometimes you won't.

Like Ed and Tony say, its a compromise and you cannot simply say more camber = more grip.

Ideally you would want a different camber setting for each corner, so the contact patch is at its optimum for the amount of roll the car has.
Yes I can... watch !
More camber , more grip!
See how easy that was ?
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Now shut the hell up and go try it.
And of course it means during cornering regardless of roll center.
That is unless you have camber loss under load , that would be detrimental.
Everyone is pissing me off about semantics and suggesting that some absurd amount of camber means ... Awe F^#k it ! Just go and try it !
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:55 AM   #5275
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I'd rather not have an internal soldered board to break during a race, but hey, I don't mind if others do
You must be used to getting hit pretty hard.
I can't believe that would happen. Not even after that car going backwards on the straight that I ran into could cause such a calamity.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:25 AM   #5276
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Originally Posted by John St.Amant View Post
Yes I can... watch !
More camber , more grip!
See how easy that was ?
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Now shut the hell up and go try it.
And of course it means during cornering regardless of roll center.
That is unless you have camber loss under load , that would be detrimental.
Everyone is pissing me off about semantics and suggesting that some absurd amount of camber means ... Awe F^#k it ! Just go and try it !
Ignore basic physics, and it seems to reveal ignorance. A simple image would be an inverse parabola, there is a optimal point where the camber will raise traction, but any number less (or or greater) will be less than optimal.
e.g. I ran 2 degrees camber and had LESS traction than 1, those aren't extreme numbers, it just wasn't the right setting for the track/conditions/camber gain etc. The tire contact was inadequate, only the inside third wore; less camber and it was hooked up again. You may be running a couple degrees, then go to my track and say "I need more traction, I must reduce the camber". It's great that on your track your results support your hypothesis, but why would you inform other racers as it being factual, and mislead them?
This thread is very amusing though.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:37 AM   #5277
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Ignore basic physics, and it seems to reveal ignorance. A simple image would be an inverse parabola, there is a optimal point where the camber will raise traction, but any number less (or or greater) will be less than optimal.
e.g. I ran 2 degrees camber and had LESS traction than 1, those aren't extreme numbers, it just wasn't the right setting for the track/conditions/camber gain etc. The tire contact was inadequate, only the inside third wore; less camber and it was hooked up again. You may be running a couple degrees, then go to my track and say "I need more traction, I must reduce the camber". It's great that on your track your results support your hypothesis, but why would you inform other racers as it being factual, and mislead them?
This thread is very amusing though.
So you went into a corner and the chassis rolled and then you had less grip.
I would say then your roll centers are incorrectly adjusted .
Sounds to me you are losing camber during cornering (more positive) instead of gaining it(more negative). As the chassis rolls the camber needs to pull the top of the wheel in so the tire can remain in full contact with the ground and never lift the inside lip of the rim from the ground.
Look fellas.... Hold your car in one hand by the back, straighten your steering and place the front tires on the table. Then apply rotation to the chassis like a pendulum and watch the camber and how its effected. This is whats happening during cornering. Turn it around and do the same. One of the reason we try to keep the roll centers close to one another is so that while cornering and the chassis actually rolls, we want the same amount of camber gain on both ends so we don't upset the balance of the car.
If you do not have enough camber gain lets say in the rear , most likely your car will spin out mid-corner. The front had more camber (more grip) therefor the car spins out ..... nuff said ... change the subject!
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:56 AM   #5278
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Is there a good place to get 416WE parts online in USA? If so can someone direct me. Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:10 PM   #5279
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Is there a good place to get 416WE parts online in USA? If so can someone direct me. Thanks in advance!
Tamiya USA has the most inventory but are most expensive. Speedtech RC has a fair amount and Ampdraw has some. Honestly though there are no good places in the US for Tamiya parts.
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:36 PM   #5280
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Is there a good place to get 416WE parts online in USA? If so can someone direct me. Thanks in advance!
Larry's Performance R/C's has a nice little inventory of parts and can take credit/debit card orders and ship them to you. (586) 997-4840
What they don't have they can get for you as long as you know the part #.
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