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Old 04-13-2009, 09:39 AM   #5101
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Careful, don't naysay the Orion packs in this thread!
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:48 AM   #5102
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Have you guys found that running the same setup for say a 3.5, 10.5, and 13.5 works, or are there many changes you have to make? I noticed that Jilles default asphalt setup as a LOT of roll in the upper links with 5 and 6mm spacers, but for something like 13.5 it doesn't seem necessary.
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:41 PM   #5103
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Careful, don't naysay the Orion packs in this thread!
I love Orion. I run their mod motors... awesome speed down the straight, tons of punch, sweet sound as the car whizzes by.

Their batteries are nice too, but they just haven't come out with a new LiPo that can compete with the new 40C stuff. I'm sure once they decide to put out a battery with similar specs to the new stuff, it'll rock.
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Old 04-13-2009, 04:04 PM   #5104
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I love Orion. I run their mod motors... awesome speed down the straight, tons of punch, sweet sound as the car whizzes by.

Their batteries are nice too, but they just haven't come out with a new LiPo that can compete with the new 40C stuff. I'm sure once they decide to put out a battery with similar specs to the new stuff, it'll rock.
The 38's are perfect for my SC10!
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Old 04-13-2009, 04:36 PM   #5105
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Try a bit more front droop. When I measured 6mm at the arms I had no droop whatsoever, so I went to 5mm all around

I'm running 5mm all around. The .5mm of anti dive on the front and the HPI silver springs front HPI blue rear seem to give the best balance, and I found when the grip was a bit lower that 3 deg of rear toe worked better than 2.5
Very nice! I'm gonna try it out this weekend. Also, Which shock oil/weight are you using with this set up?

Thanks, Chris
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:33 PM   #5106
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The front droop measurement... do you base it off the actual arms or the little dimple where the set screw goes in on the C-hub? Because there is about 1mm of difference between the two.
I measure on the arm itself because that seems to be where most of the pros measure it

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Originally Posted by CHRIS CHAVEZ
Very nice! I'm gonna try it out this weekend. Also, Which shock oil/weight are you using with this set up?

Thanks, Chris
I'm running 400 all around, but it really depends on the track. I have 2 sets of shocks so I normally build them up with a 100 split and see what works better on race day
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:36 PM   #5107
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hey guys how do i adjust ackerman so that the tie rods sweep back like this ^ ? for now i have but some spacers between the ball connectors maybe some 8mm on each ball connector.

also i would like to find out if any one makes and after market bottom deck for foam racing? i need one.

further more does the 416 (standard) come with a oneway and not a spool?

does any one run anti toe?
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:16 AM   #5108
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hey guys how do i adjust ackerman so that the tie rods sweep back like this ^ ? for now i have but some spacers between the ball connectors maybe some 8mm on each ball connector.

also i would like to find out if any one makes and after market bottom deck for foam racing? i need one.

further more does the 416 (standard) come with a oneway and not a spool?

does any one run anti toe?
I don't mean any offence by this, but I think you should spend a bit more time learning setup theory before deciding you need this that or the other. The 416 will work sufficiently well at club level anywhere with the right setup and the stock chassis. To answer your questions

- The 416 isnt designed to have swept back steering rods (they hit the front rear suspension block with 6mm+). Having them swept forward has the same effect on ackerman, so if you want more ackerman angle you can remove spacers (e.g. 3mm is the kit setting on the non WE).

- Tamiya make a 2.5mm lower deck. The team used a 1-off 3mm in vegas on foam, but if you get to the point where you need the 3mm over the 2.5mm then you'll probably be dominating club racing

- The non-WE 416 comes with a 1way

- I don't know what anti-toe is, if you mean front toe-in, then no. I've seen one setup running 0 degrees but I tried this and it was too twitchy
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:34 AM   #5109
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
I don't mean any offence by this, but I think you should spend a bit more time learning setup theory before deciding you need this that or the other. The 416 will work sufficiently well at club level anywhere with the right setup and the stock chassis. To answer your questions

- The 416 isnt designed to have swept back steering rods (they hit the front rear suspension block with 6mm+). Having them swept forward has the same effect on ackerman, so if you want more ackerman angle you can remove spacers (e.g. 3mm is the kit setting on the non WE).

- Tamiya make a 2.5mm lower deck. The team used a 1-off 3mm in vegas on foam, but if you get to the point where you need the 3mm over the 2.5mm then you'll probably be dominating club racing

- The non-WE 416 comes with a 1way

- I don't know what anti-toe is, if you mean front toe-in, then no. I've seen one setup running 0 degrees but I tried this and it was too twitchy
thanks for the response mate:

the thing is that we run foam on asphalt in SA and hence we do need a thicker deck regardless of my level of setup theory experience. (its evident is what cars dominate and what spec is used)

shot for the point on the ackerman, i thought that the rods need to be angled backwards, but now i know they can also be angled forwards for the same effect. i will be doing some testing with the ackerman on the weekend

anti toe is not front toe in....
if you dont run 0 degrees of toe what toe do you prefer?
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:58 AM   #5110
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Originally Posted by sagejyoung View Post
thanks for the response mate:

the thing is that we run foam on asphalt in SA and hence we do need a thicker deck regardless of my level of setup theory experience. (its evident is what cars dominate and what spec is used)

shot for the point on the ackerman, i thought that the rods need to be angled backwards, but now i know they can also be angled forwards for the same effect. i will be doing some testing with the ackerman on the weekend

anti toe is not front toe in....
if you dont run 0 degrees of toe what toe do you prefer?
I think with the right setup asphalt on foam should work fine with the stock decks. If the grip is super high (which should be the only reason you need a stiff car) then run thick oil, stiff springs (e.g. HPI silvers), and upright shocks and it should work a treat

ackerman is pretty easy to get the hang of. more gives you better on power steering, less gives you better off power steering. If you're running the spool just put 5mm of spacers on and never touch it again.

I run 1 deg of front toe-out
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:07 AM   #5111
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we/I/they prefer the front one way.... i have used the xray springs and they are the bomb... you know of anyone wanting to sell a std 416?
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:12 AM   #5112
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we/I/they prefer the front one way.... i have used the xray springs and they are the bomb... you know of anyone wanting to sell a std 416?
So MR 416 are you gonna run mod at trap.. or chicken out ?
hehehe

how was the practise this weekend..
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:32 AM   #5113
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yip, im running mod now, im waiting for my other 416 for 19t... have you placed your order yet? trap was cool, massive stone got into the diff and broke it so i had to stop testing but i ran my other cars and they were all good
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:39 AM   #5114
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
I think with the right setup asphalt on foam should work fine with the stock decks. If the grip is super high (which should be the only reason you need a stiff car) then run thick oil, stiff springs (e.g. HPI silvers), and upright shocks and it should work a treat

ackerman is pretty easy to get the hang of. more gives you better on power steering, less gives you better off power steering. If you're running the spool just put 5mm of spacers on and never touch it again.

I run 1 deg of front toe-out
Me too.. 1 deg toe out per side .
And umm... whow in the hell do you get 8mm of spacer on the steering belcrank. Stock is 5mm... I have 4mm on mine.
As for the chassis thickness on ashfault.... Somehow I seriously doubt that thicker is better outside on foam. Grip over all is lower even with syrup as opposed to most carpet. And a one way on foam is not good at all. Use light oil and soft springs when my car hits the road... as opposed to 40wt and white front and blue rears on the carpet.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:42 AM   #5115
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yip, im running mod now, im waiting for my other 416 for 19t... have you placed your order yet? trap was cool, massive stone got into the diff and broke it so i had to stop testing but i ran my other cars and they were all good
hey..

I decided not to get the 416..

i done some mods/blue printing to the phi... looking good... gonna try it out
next club race... the changes i made the last time made a big difference..

so we'll see....im still not convinced yet with the 416 on foams... we'll see how Quaqa goes with his in mod at the pre-nats.,. or maybe a tc5 ??


almost ordered that serpent...
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